Why can I not carry concealed in Uniform or on Post?

This is a discussion on Why can I not carry concealed in Uniform or on Post? within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I went active duty in 1969. From then until the present I don't ever remember being allow to carry, concealed or open, with a personal ...

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Thread: Why can I not carry concealed in Uniform or on Post?

  1. #31
    Member Array rangefinder's Avatar
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    I went active duty in 1969. From then until the present I don't ever remember being allow to carry, concealed or open, with a personal weapon while on a military installation.

    But the same arguments for not allowing carry on base can be the same arguments for not allowing carry off base. It al boils down to personal and professional discipline.

    I have 20 years active duty, 20 years civil service and I would like to be able to carry from home to work. I'm not as concerned with carrying while on base but more concerned with my commute, especially when the base closes the gate and you sit on a public street with the rest of the ducks.

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by rangefinder View Post
    I went active duty in 1969. From then until the present I don't ever remember being allow to carry, concealed or open, with a personal weapon while on a military installation.

    But the same arguments for not allowing carry on base can be the same arguments for not allowing carry off base. It al boils down to personal and professional discipline.

    I have 20 years active duty, 20 years civil service and I would like to be able to carry from home to work. I'm not as concerned with carrying while on base but more concerned with my commute, especially when the base closes the gate and you sit on a public street with the rest of the ducks.
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  4. #33
    Senior Member Array cwblanco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethorman View Post
    I know that arming all of our soldiers is not the right answer, because the bad will probably out weigh the good, but if someone is licensed in that state that he is staioned in to carry, and has completed all the necessary training, then why not....what will it hurt?
    I disagree with you. Except for those who still are in training , all combat arms soldiers should have the right to be armed when in uniform. To allow otherwise, is an absolute insult to their training and status. Otherwise, if they are not qualified to be trusted soldiers, they should have been screened out of service -- period!

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  5. #34
    Member Array rstrainii's Avatar
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    I was told as a Marine that once we signed the dotted line we gave up some of our rights so that we could defend the rights of others. I did not always agree with some of the restrictions that we had but followed them. As far as wearing a uniform out in town and being a target, well as Marines you are not allowed to wear out in town unless it is a dress uniform, but you could always tell the Marines by the hair cut. After the incident at Ft. Hood I doubt they will ever change the policy on bases. I hope that it does though I don't think that it is fair that we can serve a Great Nation but not excercise the rights we swore to defend.

  6. #35
    Senior Member Array Daddy Warcrimes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethorman View Post
    AR 190-11, para. 4-5b
    Carry on post is a no-no. Established and agreed upon

    AR 190-14, para. 2-8
    Applies to carry of issued weapons for law enforcement or security purposes. I find no specific prohibition to carry under other authority (i.e. state issued endorsement)

    FT. Bragg Policy... FT. Sill Policy
    Applies to carry on those installations. Where is the prohibition to carry while in uniform, under the authority of a state license and not subject to location restrictions?
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  7. #36
    Member Array Jim Macklin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethorman View Post
    Background:

    I am a SSG in the Army, I have served my country fighting for the past 7+ years. I have done 3 tours to Iraq and yet I still can not carry concealed on a military installation? I am licensed in the state of North Dakota, with recipirocity with OK (and soon to be Oklahoma). I am just wondering why/how they can take away our 2nd ammendment rights when we are fighting for the country.

    And a better question is how could I go about bringing this up to someone who can change it. I understand that its is a "Post" policy of no CCW on post, but the military says that you can not carry in uniform.

    I personally feel that because I am wearing a uniform, at work or around town, that I am more of a target than when I am civilian clothes. Granted the town is military friendly but there are some groups/gangs that do not like us, but if a solider is legally licensed to carry then I think that he should be able to exercise that right, especially if he is military.

    Hope this makes sense, and does anyone else feel the same way?
    Call your Congressman [in both states] and explain how vulnerable you feel. Explain the facts as you know them and ask them to pass a law to affirm the rights of soldiers are not surrenderewd just because you wear the uniform.

    Explain that you have a duty to defend your family and your buds in case there is another "Ft. Hood" or "Arkansas drive-by" killing of men in uniform.
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  8. #37
    Member Array Jim Macklin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rstrainii View Post
    I was told as a Marine that once we signed the dotted line we gave up some of our rights so that we could defend the rights of others. I did not always agree with some of the restrictions that we had but followed them. As far as wearing a uniform out in town and being a target, well as Marines you are not allowed to wear out in town unless it is a dress uniform, but you could always tell the Marines by the hair cut. After the incident at Ft. Hood I doubt they will ever change the policy on bases. I hope that it does though I don't think that it is fair that we can serve a Great Nation but not exercise the rights we swore to defend.
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  9. #38
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    By the way, isn't it illegal to carry in a place that serves alcohol?

    Regardless, the OP isn't asking why he can't carry in a bar! He's asking why he can't carry! PERIOD!

    I too believe soldiers should have that right! God Bless all of you guys in our military
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  10. #39
    Member Array ethorman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daddy Warcrimes View Post
    Carry on post is a no-no. Established and agreed upon

    Applies to carry of issued weapons for law enforcement or security purposes. I find no specific prohibition to carry under other authority (i.e. state issued endorsement)


    Applies to carry on those installations. Where is the prohibition to carry while in uniform, under the authority of a state license and not subject to location restrictions?
    By state laws, I am sure you are fine, I am more concerned with the Military rules and regulations of carrying on post in uniform. As was stated in a previous post, the commute/lunch is really the only times that concern me.

    I should state "at work on post"

    Can you carry in ACU's off post, probably can, but again I have never found anything saying you cant....but then again I have never found anything saying you can either... However we are not allowed to wear our military uniform past 2000 out in town (My posts rules), and on the commute to and from work we are allowed to stop for little things, gas, beer, grocerys.

    Again the "BG" can make it on post with a weapon, but he does not follow the rules, but we as law abiding citizens do follow the rules, therefor because there are no CW on post, no one has anything to defend ourselves, as was proven in the Ft. Hood shooting, when someone showed up with a gun, the situation ended.
    Last edited by ethorman; December 10th, 2009 at 11:57 AM. Reason: For correctness, misunderstanding

  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by cwblanco View Post
    I disagree with you. Except for those who still are in training , all combat arms soldiers should have the right to be armed when in uniform. To allow otherwise, is an absolute insult to their training and status. Otherwise, if they are not qualified to be trusted soldiers, they should have been screened out of service -- period!

    [From a line officer in the Vietnam era. Been there - done that.]
    I agree with that, my origninal statement was to arm soldiers based on the fact that they were soldiers. I do believe that anyone United States Citizen, regardless of their Military status, if they complete the required training by, their state, and their base/post should be allowed to carry. IMO

  12. #41
    Member Array Jim Macklin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G27owner View Post
    By the way, isn't it illegal to carry in a place that serves alcohol?

    Regardless, the OP isn't asking why he can't carry in a bar! He's asking why he can't carry! PERIOD!

    I too believe soldiers should have that right! God Bless all of you guys in our military
    Depends... different states have different rules. Some have a 51% rule, some say not ever, and some just say you can't be under the influence.
    Under the influence is just like DL 0.08% BAC is presumptive. But if you have one /12 a small glass of wine with meal and cause a ruckus or argue with a cop, you can be charged with under the influence.
    Consider two cases, a bartender might be armed for security. A plumber might be there a noon to fix the beer cooler, business closed. But if the place was posted, he couldn't carry [Kansas]. Kansas law requires places that want to forbid carry to post a sign approved by the AG. The 51% rule, who knows what bteh profit margins are between food and alcohol? And why would they tell us, I'm not the IRS.
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  13. #42
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    Unfortunately, the powers that be are not as enlightened as the rest of us IRT concealed carry (or open carry, for that matter) on post/base.

    Quote Originally Posted by ethorman View Post
    <snip>the military says that you can not carry in uniform.<snip>
    What AR/AFI/Reg states this? When doing my research, there is nothing that prohibits concealed carry off-post/base in uniform (note: AF Instructions); thus, concealed is concealed.
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  14. #43
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    Please read post 39 on page 4, I think that will clear some stuff up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunday View Post
    I agree this is absurd, you should be able to carry. I believe the Clinton administration is responsible for this nonsense back in the 1990s, based upon what I read on another thread discussing the Fort Hood incident.
    I do believe you are correct, IIRC, Clinton made this change in 1993.

  16. #45
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    Still...if the governing regulation (or local post regulation) does not address it...and you are within the law of the state you reside (permit, and the like)....you can can carry concealed, in uniform, OFF-post/base...

    It will be rare to find a list of things you CAN do....
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