Why can I not carry concealed in Uniform or on Post?

This is a discussion on Why can I not carry concealed in Uniform or on Post? within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by scorpion12 How would a military person be out of uniform if theyr were carrying concealed? Concealed is concealed... and military members are ...

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Thread: Why can I not carry concealed in Uniform or on Post?

  1. #91
    New Member Array buldawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scorpion12 View Post
    How would a military person be out of uniform if theyr were carrying concealed? Concealed is concealed... and military members are allowed to carry concealed off base... just not on base...

    I work on an Air Force Base. I'd love to be able to carry, but federal law prevents me from doing so. Do I think it sucks? Yes. Is there a chance it may change? Yes. Slim.
    You work on an Air Force Base. Are you active duty? If it ain't allowed by reg, you are considered out of uniform whether the item is visible or not. Regs describe your underwear and you can't see them.
    As far as the OPs original question/thought, it seems that several have noted the fact that we rightfully lose many of our normal "rights" when we enlist or are commissioned. I spent over 20 years in the USAF. For a military unit to be most effective, all must follow orders without question. Not being allowed to CC in uniform is just one of many things Active Duty personnel must accept. If you can't do that, you have the option to change your status from active duty to veteran.

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  3. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by buldawg View Post
    I spent over 20 years in the USAF. For a military unit to be most effective, all must follow orders without question. Not being allowed to CC in uniform is just one of many things Active Duty personnel must accept. If you can't do that, you have the option to change your status from active duty to veteran.
    Please cite the AFI which prohibits CC off-base, in uniform...I have yet to find this reference.

    Where I work, I have the option to park off U.S. gov't property...
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  4. #93
    Member Array G30shooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethorman View Post
    Background:

    I am a SSG in the Army, I have served my country fighting for the past 7+ years. I have done 3 tours to Iraq and yet I still can not carry concealed on a military installation? I am licensed in the state of North Dakota, with recipirocity with OK (and soon to be Oklahoma). I am just wondering why/how they can take away our 2nd ammendment rights when we are fighting for the country.

    And a better question is how could I go about bringing this up to someone who can change it. I understand that its is a "Post" policy of no CCW on post, but the military says that you can not carry in uniform.

    I personally feel that because I am wearing a uniform, at work or around town, that I am more of a target than when I am civilian clothes. Granted the town is military friendly but there are some groups/gangs that do not like us, but if a solider is legally licensed to carry then I think that he should be able to exercise that right, especially if he is military.

    Hope this makes sense, and does anyone else feel the same way?
    SSG, as a retire military O-4 whose primary duty involved Port Security and Maritime Counter-terrorism, I could not agree with you more concerning the non-sensical nature of this policy. However, first things first ...

    Our Second ammendment rights (or any rights for that matter) are something we sometimes have to sacrifice as members of the military community - we fight to defend and preserve democracy; we don't necessarily enjoy democracy while serving.

    Not carrying on base is probably a base policy, but it may rest on Army Regs for support. Changing base policy may be accomplished with the assistance of your Command Master Sergeant. It will take time.

    As for Army Regs perohibiting you from carrying concealed in uniform - I don't know, I'm not familiar with Army Regs (retired from another service - my regs were silent about this). However, it seems to me the most immediate solution, as unfortunate as it is, is to change into civies anytime you go off base unless you are engaged in official duties requiring you to be in uniform. Several years ago (after 9/11) my service suggested that uniforms be worned sparingly when off base off duty.

    None of the foregoing is probably very satisfying - sorry. Thank you though for your dedicated service to this country - I for one would be out there with you if they'd let a slightly over weight grey haired man nearing 50 to come back in. God bless.

  5. #94
    Member Array Steve O's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunday View Post
    I agree this is absurd, you should be able to carry. I believe the Clinton administration is responsible for this nonsense back in the 1990s, based upon what I read on another thread discussing the Fort Hood incident.
    That's bulltork. The military never let you carry loaded weapons when I was in the military unless you were at a firing range or in a war zone.

  6. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by black knife View Post
    How many bar fights have you seen or been involved in?.....I mean I have been involved in straight out brawls, company verus company.....I have even seen a guy get his half his cheek get bitten off......could you imagine a bar fight where a couple of knuckle heads had guns on them...man it would be a blood bath ...thats why you guy don't carry guns on or off base.....and you never will...just get used to it or get out of the Army
    This is very offensive to me as a former Marine. As a Marine the only brawl that I ever saw was in Hong Kong between the British Royal Marines and US Marines. After it all they all drank together and had a great time. None of us wanted to kill the other, I find it apualing that someone would have such a low regard for those that put thier lives on the line for us every day. Just wanted to let you know that this statement offended me and I am sure many other of my brothers and sisters in arms.

  7. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by rstrainii View Post
    This is very offensive to me as a former Marine. As a Marine the only brawl that I ever saw was in Hong Kong between the British Royal Marines and US Marines. After it all they all drank together and had a great time. None of us wanted to kill the other, I find it apualing that someone would have such a low regard for those that put thier lives on the line for us every day. Just wanted to let you know that this statement offended me and I am sure many other of my brothers and sisters in arms.
    Yep, people like to keep the old hellraisin, killin machine brutal Marine thing goin. I have had the pleasure of working with Marines in Iraq. I was wondering what was going to happen. We sure made fun of each other (I had it easy as a medic) Everyone was vey professional and I'll walk into a bar loaded with Marines any day or go to battle again.

    Glad you spoke your piece brother.

    Of course the same can be said for Soldiers or frat boys..bad things happen and a friggin ignorant stereotypes start.
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  8. #97
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    I would go through your chain of command and ask permission to write the chairman of the armed forces committee in congress. I agree with you, if you are good enough to carry weapons to protect our country you should be able to carry them when you are in uniform. Anywhere.

  9. #98
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    OK I only read the first page. I am a 19yr AirForce E-7, I have yet to see a rule that says I can't carry concealed off base. If their is an AFI would someone please point it out to me. Thanks. Bryan

  10. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daddy Warcrimes View Post
    As to the question of why, I will quote myself from here.
    Here is what you said there:
    If a commander authorizes a subordinate to carry a weapon, and the subordinate does something inappropriate, that commander will be faulted.

    If a commander does not authorize the subordinate, but the subordinate does something stupid with a weapon anyway, they probably won't fault the commander.

    If there is an immediately foreseeable threat, and the commander does not arm the troops, he may be faulted against that.

    In this situation, there was no enemy contact expected, so the commander will not be accountable for insisting the troops be unarmed.

    The commander has no incentive to arm the troops, and every incentive to disarm them.
    It seems to me that you hold the commander's right to CYA in higher regard than the soldier's natural, unalienable right to keep and bear arms.

    Remember, the right to keep and bear arms is not granted to us by the Second Amendment. The right to keep and bear arms is inherent in us as human beings. No one can justifiably take that right from us (until we attempt to violate the rights of someone else).

    We created this government, and granted it some powers in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.

    In the Bill of Rights, we declared to the government "These are OUR rights. Do Not Touch"

    No President, Congress, Judge, or commander has the power to take away a natural and unalienable right.

  11. #100
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    I would go through your chain of command and ask permission to write the chairman of the armed forces committee in congress.

    When the congress critter gets the letter he writes a letter to the military officer who is the liaison guy to congress. The military liaison officer puts the complaint into the chain of command of the service that the letter writer belongs to. The letter comes down the chain of command to the unit of the letter writer. The folks in the chain of command may not be happy.

    The executive branch runs the US military. Congress and SCOTUS do not intervene in military matters of this nature.

  12. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by black knife View Post
    could you imagine a bar fight where a couple of knuckle heads had guns on them...man it would be a blood bath ...thats why you guy don't carry guns on or off base.....and you never will.
    Because a few knuckleheads exist and would tempt murder, it justifies disarming an entire population? That seems the same basic justification for anti-gunners to get bans passed.

    Seems to me that with a hard-line stance, the knuckleheads would be handled much like any other criminal if they dared to lose their heads while carrying. Thirty years to life in Leavenworth or death by firing squad should be a reasonably stiff deterrent to repeat offenses.
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  13. #102
    Senior Member Array Daddy Warcrimes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyhead View Post
    It seems to me that you hold the commander's right to CYA in higher regard than the soldier's natural, unalienable right to keep and bear arms.
    You misunderstand me.

    I'm merely trying to explain the commanders' reasoning for the prohibition, and why under the current military culture the local policies will not change.

    If there is to be a provision for servicemember carry for self defense, we will have to take the commanders out of the equation.
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  14. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethorman View Post
    Background:
    And a better question is how could I go about bringing this up to someone who can change it. I understand that its is a "Post" policy of no CCW on post, but the military says that you can not carry in uniform.
    It is not Post Policy it's AR190-11. There are many reasons for it, but with the recent events I think it deservs a review. As far as changing it, try writing your congressman, good luck with that.
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  15. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethorman View Post
    Background:

    I am a SSG in the Army, I have served my country fighting for the past 7+ years. I have done 3 tours to Iraq and yet I still can not carry concealed on a military installation? I am licensed in the state of North Dakota, with recipirocity with OK (and soon to be Oklahoma). I am just wondering why/how they can take away our 2nd ammendment rights when we are fighting for the country.

    And a better question is how could I go about bringing this up to someone who can change it. I understand that its is a "Post" policy of no CCW on post, but the military says that you can not carry in uniform.

    I personally feel that because I am wearing a uniform, at work or around town, that I am more of a target than when I am civilian clothes. Granted the town is military friendly but there are some groups/gangs that do not like us, but if a solider is legally licensed to carry then I think that he should be able to exercise that right, especially if he is military.

    Hope this makes sense, and does anyone else feel the same way?
    I totally agree with you. Our soldiers are expected to be ready to die for their country when fighting in for example the Middle East, but they cannon carry a concealed firearm when wearing the same uniform at home. That is ridiculous.
    "The Second Amendment: America's Original Homeland Security"

  16. #105
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    I have read the thread in its entirety, but will not comment on previous posts. I will however give a scenario I just played out the other day.

    After an uneventful OC trip to my local Wally World I returned to my house (Off Post) and figured out I needed to fuel up my other vehicle. I knew I wanted to go on post for fuel, but was carrying.
    Knowing the rules I had 2 choices-
    1- unload and clear my weapon and lock the pistol up away from the magazine IAW the federal transportation laws.
    2- leave my weapon at my house while I ran on post.
    (NOTE- I was in civvies)
    I unholstered my weapon and headed on post with my holster still on my hip. I chose this due to random gate inspections and the chance that our civilian security forces might not be up to speed on the rules and regs of firearms transport. I have heard of an instance where Staff Duty was called because a soldier "had a gun" in his car. He was transporting it correctly and no action was taken against him, but I didnt want the hassle. I continued up to the Shoppette and got my fuel with my holster still displayed on my hip.

    That was my silent protest. In civvies I was not "Out of Uniform" nor was I directly confronting any one or the CoC. I know you can transport firearms on post. I know you can register them and have them in your post housing here at FT Stewart. I dont see a need for me to carry while in uniform at work. I would like to be more free to transition from not carrying at work to carrying away from work considering some of our bases dont have the best of communities directly outside our gates. (Ft Bragg- Fayettnam, Schofield- Wahaiwa) I would also like to be able to carry OC or CC (either would be fine) while in civvies as I go about my business on a non duty day. Perhaps just being able to pass through the gate without the fear of being treated like a terrorist if they find a properly stored weapon.

    I am a Staff Sergeant in the Infantry and I have a GFL. FWIW
    Last edited by Bkrazy; January 31st, 2010 at 12:11 PM. Reason: mistype that changed a meaning (proofreading is your friend)

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