Trained Service Members carrying on a installation?

This is a discussion on Trained Service Members carrying on a installation? within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; With the recent debates over should millitary service members be allowed to carry on a millitary installation, and the recent incident at Ft. Hood. I ...

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Thread: Trained Service Members carrying on a installation?

  1. #1
    Member Array ethorman's Avatar
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    Trained Service Members carrying on a installation?

    With the recent debates over should millitary service members be allowed to carry on a millitary installation, and the recent incident at Ft. Hood. I would be curious as to see what the fellow Amercians, feelings towards this situation would be. So here is the question:

    Do you feel that Military memebers should be allowed to carry on a Military Installation, provided that they have completed all necessary training for their state that their base is located in, and/or any other traning that would be required by the Department of Defense for them to meet the necessary requriments that they have every right to set forth?

    Keep in mind that they are allowed to carry off post and when in "plain/civilan" clothes (I have found nothing saying about in Uniform off post either being against regulations), but are not allowed to carry on a military installation, because they are property of the United States Government.

    My vote is Yes
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  3. #2
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    Actually anyone who is licensed to carry by the state should be allowed to carry on base in my opinion. As a retiree I have to travel disarmed when I want to go to the commissary or exchange, so I rarely go on base.

  4. #3
    Senior Member Array rolyat63's Avatar
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    and civilians too.
    rolyat63
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  5. #4
    Member Array Jim Macklin's Avatar
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    From a practical standpoint, even if Major Hassan was armed, if a dozen other trained and qualified troops were also armed, he would have been shot and stop almost instantly, perhaps with no loss of life.

    But the irrational authorities wanted to be sure that a killer had plenty of time to raise the body count, at least that was the effect of the GFZ.

    Maybe, to fit with the control model, the Pentagon and base commanders can be required to allow those officers and NCO who request to carry on base and in uniform if they have both a civilian CCW/CCH/CWP and have attended a MP class and qualified and have a clean record that includes at least 4 years service.
    The People Think the Constitution Protects Their Rights;
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  6. #5
    Member Array sleepyhead's Avatar
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    The right to keep and bear arms is inalienable. This right has been ours forever, before we had fire, before we became civilized, and certainly before we created government. And it will always be our right, forever, regardless of what laws are passed, and certainly regardless of one's military status. This right is as much a part of a person as the heart pumping blood. And it can no more be taken away from anyone than you can take away their heart!

    In other words, I vote YES :)

  7. #6
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    Been in and around the military all my life, and I’m also a retired service member. Still, I simply can’t imagine how any post/base commander would ever go along with carry weapons. Besides, this whole Ft Hood thing will effectively slam-dunk any attempt towards such provisions. Also, I worked some investigations and I was shocked to see what goes on inside some of those base housing units. Admittedly, if other friendly's were carrying in the medical processing area, things may have turned out differently.
    “Monsters are real and so are ghosts. They live inside of us, and sometimes they win.”
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  8. #7
    Member Array sleepyhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saber View Post
    I simply can’t imagine how any post/base commander would ever go along with carry weapons.
    Why? You must have some VERY convincing data to support the violation of the unalienable right to keep and bear arms.

    Although, I will admit, I will never be convinced that such a violation is acceptable, so maybe we will just have to agree to disagree :)

  9. #8
    Distinguished Member Array JerryM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyhead View Post
    Why? You must have some VERY convincing data to support the violation of the unalienable right to keep and bear arms.

    Although, I will admit, I will never be convinced that such a violation is acceptable, so maybe we will just have to agree to disagree :)
    When you enter military service you do not have either 1st or 2nd Amendment rights.

    Military commanders have a unique job, and must have a great deal of authority over their commands in order to be able to do their jobs. I personally agree with not permitting carry on post.

    Regards,
    Jerry

  10. #9
    Member Array Jim Macklin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JerryM View Post
    When you enter military service you do not have either 1st or 2nd Amendment rights.

    Military commanders have a unique job, and must have a great deal of authority over their commands in order to be able to do their jobs. I personally agree with not permitting carry on post.

    Regards,
    Jerry
    There is no reason why 10% of those assigned to an installation could not be qualified and "under orders" to carry.
    Having an active shooter unopposed for 4-5 minutes is just unacceptable.
    The People Think the Constitution Protects Their Rights;
    Government See IT as an Obstacle to be Over-come.

  11. #10
    Distinguished Member Array JerryM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Macklin View Post
    There is no reason why 10% of those assigned to an installation could not be qualified and "under orders" to carry.
    Having an active shooter unopposed for 4-5 minutes is just unacceptable.
    Where would the 10% be?
    This was a tragedy that could have been prevented if it had not been for PC. But this one instance does not make a case for soldiers being permitted to carry on post.

    If I were going to try to protect from such things by more people carrying I would have more MPs as my choice. Under no circumstances would I permit carrying on base. I might could be talked into permitting field grade officers to carry if they had the right training. Yes, the guy was a field grade officer, but that doesn't change things for me.

    This debacle was preventable and the lack of courage by those officers and others who knew of this guy are guilty, and some should be disciplined up to the highest rank that had an indication of his background and activities.

    Regards,
    Jerry

  12. #11
    VIP Member Array Sig 210's Avatar
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    This debacle was preventable and the lack of courage by those officers and others who knew of this guy are guilty, and some should be disciplined up to the highest rank that had an indication of his background and activities.
    Excellent post.

  13. #12
    VIP Member Array edr9x23super's Avatar
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    1) We ask these brave soldiers to go risk their lives with death or life-altering injuries, as well as the mental trauma they will carry with them for the rest of their lives.
    2) We pay these people a terrible wage, considering what we ask them to do and endure in our good names.

    I think the least we can do is allow them the means to defend themselves at all times. I personally would fire any commander who did not trust those under his command with firearms......
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry

  14. #13
    VIP Member Array First Sgt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JerryM View Post
    When you enter military service you do not have either 1st or 2nd Amendment rights.


    Regards,
    Jerry
    Please cite your reference on military members losing their 1st and 2nd Amendment rights. I'm not sure a citizen gives up their rights just because they are a member of the military. Actually, a member takes an oath to "support and defend the Constitution", so seems a bit unusual they would lose thier own rights while defending the rights of others. JMO

    Also, I believe you mentioned in an additional post that perhaps you would allow Field Grade Officers the opportunity to carry on base. Is there something that gives Officers more qualification to carry, than say, a Senior NCO, or perhaps a WO, given "proper training" as you say?

    Just curious and look forward to gaining more insight into your views.

    I personally support a military members right to carry just as I do a civilians right to carry. Unfortunately, they cannot carry, when out of uniform, on a military installation, just as retirees and/or civilians cannot carry when entering the installation. However, there should be more provision for armed "on duty" members. Again..JMO
    Sometimes in life you have to stand your ground. It's a hard lesson to learn and even most adults don't get it, but in the end only I can be responsible for my life. If faced with any type of adversity, only I can overcome it. Waiting for someone else to take responsibility is a long fruitless wait.

  15. #14
    Member Array TheSaiga308's Avatar
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    I am a newly naturalized citizen but I'm also curious as to where it says in the Constitution that military members lose their 1st and 2nd amendment rights when serving their country. That just doesn't make sense to me at all. History indicates that most mass murders seem to occur where people are forced to be disarmed. I am a realist and realize that people ignore the Constitution all the time but that doesn't make it right. It does mean that we should have more courage to defend the constitution and other citizen's rights. If we don't, it won't take long before OUR rights are also taken away.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth keystone... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference."
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  16. #15
    Member Array hengst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Macklin View Post
    From a practical standpoint, even if Major Hassan was armed, if a dozen other trained and qualified troops were also armed, he would have been shot and stop almost instantly, perhaps with no loss of life.

    But the irrational authorities wanted to be sure that a killer had plenty of time to raise the body count, at least that was the effect of the GFZ.

    Maybe, to fit with the control model, the Pentagon and base commanders can be required to allow those officers and NCO who request to carry on base and in uniform if they have both a civilian CCW/CCH/CWP and have attended a MP class and qualified and have a clean record that includes at least 4 years service.
    Outstanding! Well put +1

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