Are you happy with your academy/department firearm training, seek private training?

Are you happy with your academy/department firearm training, seek private training?

This is a discussion on Are you happy with your academy/department firearm training, seek private training? within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Something I've been wondering about, so here goes: How do you LEO's feel about the training you received in academy, and subsequent department training in ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array Jcabin's Avatar
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    Are you happy with your academy/department firearm training, seek private training?

    Something I've been wondering about, so here goes:



    How do you LEO's feel about the training you received in academy, and subsequent department training in regards to firearms?



    --Do you feel confident on the street with your academy training?

    --Does your department even offer any form of advanced firearm theory and tactics?

    --I know every department varies, but I've seen many LEO's on various forums state that their department offers only a meager 1 or 2 boxes of ammunition for their officers to train with

    --How often do you need to qualify and do you think your department gives you enough ammunition to maintain proficiency and at the same time increase your skill?

    --How much ammunition do you buy out of pocket to maintain proficiency?



    Now, I've spoken with several LEO's, and they feel it is absolutely paramount to seek outside, private institution advanced firearm tactics from such institutions as Front Sight, for example.

    --Do you seek out advanced training on your own dime?

    --Does your department pay for officers to receive advanced tactical training that they are ill-equipped to provide?

    --Does your department look down on you seeking advanced training outside their realm of control? For political or other reasons?


  2. #2
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    --Do you feel confident on the street with your academy training?

    For the most part. Confident? Not exactly.All of the most advanced training in the world does not make you bulletproof. Does it increase your chances of survival? Sure it does. But even if you do everything right in a firefight it is no guarantee of survival.

    --Does your department even offer any form of advanced firearm theory and tactics?
    Yes. In the last several years, they have come a long way in training.

    I know every department varies, but I've seen many LEO's on various forums state that their department offers only a meager 1 or 2 boxes of ammunition for their officers to train with
    True. They do have to stay within budget contraints.

    The last session I attended a month ago I used 100 rounds of duty ammo for the handgun, 25 rounds for the backup,25 rounds for the shotgun, 100 rounds for the AR, and I put over 100 rounds through an MP5 and two twenty round boxes of Federal Match through the 308.

    I would venture a guess that its probably more than most do.

    --How often do you need to qualify and do you think your department gives you enough ammunition to maintain proficiency and at the same time increase your skill?
    I only have to qual twice a year. Maintaining proficiency is up to the individual officer. Many do, some dont. Shooting is a perishable skill that needs to be practiced. Like any other skill, the less you practice the worse it becomes.

    --
    How much ammunition do you buy out of pocket to maintain proficiency?
    Pretty much zero. I trade out gunsmithing services for lots of ammo.I have cases of stuff laying around that just begs to shot.

    --
    Do you seek out advanced training on your own dime?
    No. I have considered it, but work always interferes.

    --Does your department pay for officers to receive advanced tactical training that they are ill-equipped to provide?
    That depends. If they can they will. They will try to help if at all possible.

    --Does your department look down on you seeking advanced training outside their realm of control? For political or other reasons
    No,in fact it is highly encouraged. Our last two Sheriffs were very active in assisting in CHL classes. Our present Sheriff has sent several officers to various FBI training in Quantico.

    They know that training is a continuing process and support it. Unfortunatley, the city council that controls the S.O. budget does not see it that way. Like every other council in America, they have people on it that live in their own comfortable little bubbles and they see no need for such "drastic measures" because drastic things rarely happen in our "family friendly community".
    Like many other communitys, the S.O. is at the bottom of the budget stucture. If anything is left after everyone gets their money, the S.O. gets theirs.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  3. #3
    Distinguished Member Array Agave's Avatar
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    I'm not currently employed, so I'll answer like I still were.

    --Do you feel confident on the street with your academy training?
    I felt it was fantastic. I watched a 19 year old Cali boy from San Diego go from hippy to gun fighter in just a couple weeks.

    --Does your department even offer any form of advanced firearm theory and tactics?
    Yes.

    --I know every department varies, but I've seen many LEO's on various forums state that their department offers only a meager 1 or 2 boxes of ammunition for their officers to train with
    We got 250 rounds of duty ammo for the sidearm per quarter with which to qualify, practice, and carry. I didn't like shooting it for practice.

    --How often do you need to qualify and do you think your department gives you enough ammunition to maintain proficiency and at the same time increase your skill?
    Qualification was quarterly. I thought it sufficient. I didn't get enough ammo to do all the shooting that I wanted in order to maintain and improve.

    --How much ammunition do you buy out of pocket to maintain proficiency?
    I'd buy a couple hundred rounds a month.

    --Do you seek out advanced training on your own dime?
    I never did, but I was certainly willing and would have liked to.

    --Does your department pay for officers to receive advanced tactical training that they are ill-equipped to provide?
    Negative.

    --Does your department look down on you seeking advanced training outside their realm of control? For political or other reasons?
    Not that I am aware.
    The preceding post may contain sarcasm; it's just better that way. However, it is still intended with construction and with the Love of my L-rd Y'shua.

    NRA Certified Pistol Instructor, Tennessee Certified Instructor

  4. #4
    Member Array Jcabin's Avatar
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    Thanks for the reply HotGuns it was informative!

  5. #5
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    I can answer most of your questions in one sentence;

    Basic police academy's are called basic for a reason.


    Each department is very different, and things change very rapidly depending on leadership and political roles like HotGuns mentioned.

    I try my best to provided top notch training to our guys. We do have an unlimited (within reason) ammo allowance, and a lot of our guys take advantage of it. We also can request advanced outside training if officers wish, and most of the time it gets approved.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  6. #6
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    Sixto, our training officer is a borderline lunatic. The one before him was certifiable.

    You are the training officer for your dept, correct?
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


    AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
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  7. #7
    Senior Member Array usmc3169's Avatar
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    --Do you feel confident on the street with your academy training?
    Ours was top notch - the pistol training was far better than anything I recieved in the Marine Corps (OK that is not saying much) the Rifle training (AR15) was as good as any of the EMP or advanced shooting schools that I went to or taught in the Corps, and the shotgun training was as good as the rifle training. I watched a female officer who had NEVER HELD A GUN IN HER LIFE become a serious gunfighter - I have invited her to this forum actually - dont be surpised to see her around one day soon!

    --Does your department even offer any form of advanced firearm theory and tactics?
    It does, mostly getting into terminal ballistics and shot placement/hydrostatic shock (or lack there of in pistols) in the class room. On the range we do everything from dynamic active shooter scenarios to ambush and immediate action drills.

    --I know every department varies, but I've seen many LEO's on various forums state that their department offers only a meager 1 or 2 boxes of ammunition for their officers to train with
    Every 3 months or so we have in service training and go through 3-400 rounds on our duty weapon... plus a scored qualification every 6 months. other than that it is on the individual officer.

    --How much ammunition do you buy out of pocket to maintain proficiency?
    100 or so every month, money is tight with the new baby around.

    --Do you seek out advanced training on your own dime?
    Sig Sauer armorer's course--- crossing my fingers for the one in February!

    --Does your department pay for officers to receive advanced tactical training that they are ill-equipped to provide?
    When it can - city budget says it cant right now.

    --Does your department look down on you seeking advanced training outside their realm of control? For political or other reasons?
    HECK NO! very strongly encouraged.
    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Sixto, our training officer is a borderline lunatic. The one before him was certifiable.

    You are the training officer for your dept, correct?
    I am the lunatic on the range... yes. I do defensive (OK, maybe some offensive) tactics and all firearms/Taser stuff. I am in the process of letting the Taser training go for political reasons right now though. I am doing very little Taser stuff, that has been turned over to another officer who has a little more patience than me.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  9. #9
    Member Array Jcabin's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the replies guys!! Interesting stuff.

    I was hoping for some more input by now. LEO's where are you?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcabin View Post
    How do you LEO's feel about the training you received in academy, and subsequent department training in regards to firearms?
    I thought it was very good, safety; dry fire practice for trigger control; basics; recoil control; follow up shots; stop drills; standing/knee/prone shooting out to 25 yards; up close and personal shooting; SHTF scenarios; simulated primary hand injury-using secondary hand alone shooting/reloading; reactive targets; assessing threats and taking appropriate action; timed drills on steel targets: one shot from holster, 2 shots from holster, 2 shots from combat ready, 6 shots from combat ready, shots on multiple targets; Sims training for that adrenaline filled experience with pain as a reminder; shotgun training; Rangemaster and SWAT members doing the teaching, all trained at Blackwater and other places, and most important.....the combat mindset to win the fight!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jcabin View Post
    --Do you feel confident on the street with your academy training?
    yes I feel confident....now, does that mean I go to calls or get into confrontations with a chip on my shoulder because I have a gun and vest and think I'm unstoppable......no, I'm confident....there is a difference

    Quote Originally Posted by Jcabin View Post
    --Does your department even offer any form of advanced firearm theory and tactics?
    yes, took advanced pistol course this summer after being on the streets for 6 months, other courses offered at various times throughout the year

    Quote Originally Posted by Jcabin View Post
    --I know every department varies, but I've seen many LEO's on various forums state that their department offers only a meager 1 or 2 boxes of ammunition for their officers to train with

    --How often do you need to qualify and do you think your department gives you enough ammunition to maintain proficiency and at the same time increase your skill?
    we individually shot about 1300 rounds each in the week long firearms class in the academy
    we officially qual once a year but the we do the range twice a year but the second one is "officially" a refresher/training day
    we are allowed 50 rounds a month at the range for training

    Quote Originally Posted by Jcabin View Post
    --How much ammunition do you buy out of pocket to maintain proficiency?
    a bunch...9mm, 45, 12ga, .223/5.56...I shoot quite a bit but I'm a gun guy, most cops aren't and most of ours don't hit the range nearly enough IMO

    Quote Originally Posted by Jcabin View Post
    Now, I've spoken with several LEO's, and they feel it is absolutely paramount to seek outside, private institution advanced firearm tactics from such institutions as Front Sight, for example.

    --Do you seek out advanced training on your own dime?
    I am planning to go to Blackwater (now called Xe)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jcabin View Post
    --Does your department pay for officers to receive advanced tactical training that they are ill-equipped to provide?
    sometimes, depends on officer's seniority or job role, but typically they don't just send everyone for advanced tactical training

    Quote Originally Posted by Jcabin View Post
    --Does your department look down on you seeking advanced training outside their realm of control? For political or other reasons?
    no, absolutely not
    LEO/CHL
    Certified Glock Armorer

    "I got a touch of hangover bureaucrat, don't push me"
    --G.W. McClintock

    Independence is declared; it must be maintained. Sam Houston-3/2/1836
    If loose gun laws are good for criminals why do criminals support gun control?

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