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The Nigerian PETN device

3K views 52 replies 36 participants last post by  Thanis 
#1 ·
2 videos, submitted for your consideration... the first is 20 grams of PETN, the same explosive the Nigerian had on Christmas... except he had 4 times as much, or 80 grams...

20 g PETN


Now, here's another video on how to make an explosive that only requires one drop to make a surprising explosion, hidden in a ball-point pen...

Binary explosive



Who feels like flying to Egypt or Morocco on vacation...?
 
#23 ·
Airport security is designed to protect the asset, the plane. YOU are expendable.
Yup. Doing what's necessary to save each and every person from every threat is cost prohibitive and impossible to implement everywhere threats can occur. Always has been. Always will be. In that sense, at least, the individual is expendable.


We dodged a serious bullet here... 300 dead on Christmas day... only a shoddy detonation system saved those people.
If a 6-inch "bag" of this stuff (worn on the body) could blast a hole in a plane, imagine how easy it would be for a few dozen such individuals to simultaneously board planes all around the world.

If the individual is prepared to be erased, it's fairly hard to stop a motivated person from committing the act.
 
#4 ·
I remember seeing guys use that binary stuff for seismic applications, they used to tell us it was safer to use and transport that way; the stuff they used I think was called Powerfrac. It had the same type of components, although I don't know if it was anything like the stuff in the video....
 
#5 ·
We dodged a serious bullet here... 300 dead on Christmas day... only a shoddy detonation system saved those people. He was (deliberately, it is assumed) sitting window seat, over the wing and fuel.

On a related matter, DHS head Napolitano trumpeted the success of this incident... "The system worked..."

Napolitano: "The system worked"

Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano said Sunday that the thwarting of the attempt to blow up an Amsterdam-Detroit airline flight Christmas Day demonstrated that "the system worked."

Asked by CNN's Candy Crowley on "State of the Union" how that could be possible when the young Nigerian who has been charged with trying to set off the bomb was able to smuggle explosive liquid onto the jet, Napolitano responded: "We're asking the same questions."

Napolitano added that there was "no suggestion that [the suspect] was improperly screened."
 
#8 ·
Good Lord. The system FAILED. That scumbag should have never gotten on the airplane in the first place. WTH is the matter with this woman? Is she ignorant or just plain STUPID!

The only reason we dodged the bullet is because the idiot scumbag FAILED!
 
#6 ·
One drop is pretty impressive... how big a bang would you get from a charge that was the size of, say, a Zippo lighter, or a fun-size candy bar...?
 
#7 ·
Given where he was sitting, over the wing and fuel tank with a few thousand pounds of fuel.... one big fireball in the sky if it had exploded.
 
#11 ·
News Update:

napolitano has changed her mind.:aargh4:

She's now saying that the system failed.

The bottom line: This woman is completely clueless.
 
#28 ·
Sadly, we knew that when she was our governor. She was an apologist for illegal immigrants and her reward was a cabinet post because she supposedly had "experience" with border issues.
Yep, that experience shows.
 
#14 ·
Do we still have sky marshals?

Since this is a gun forum what do they carry to defend the airplane?
 
#15 ·
I know the binary systems exist, but that second video looks to be a major hoax. Nothing matches up for starters.
  1. The video shows the pen attached to the side of the melon that's resting on some sort of post/stand.
  2. Suddenly the video cuts to what appears to be an "explosion" of sorts that has a completely different background and the explosion is moving upward and out bottom to top. Wasn't the pen attached to the side of the melon? Shouldn't the explosion be moving left to right? And where's the stand the melon was on along with the rest of the background?:confused:
  3. Where was the shockwave and why didn't the camera catch it. If this was HE the camera should have captured the shockwave...if it were an HE compound we would be talking in the thousands of meters per second range.

What I saw looked like someone lit a darn black cat firecracker and placed the watermelon on top...and yes...seen that first hand...:embarassed:
 
#17 ·
Did the system fail?
I don't think there is a system.
Help me connect the dots.
This guy gets on a plane without a passport (reportedly)
He pays cash for a one way ticket overseas and has no luggage.
His father had turned him in to authorities as being a radical.
His name was on a watch list.

And yet he got no additional screening? Are they crazy?

Meanwhile, I'm taking my shoes off, and jumping through hoops to make a good theater for Obama to show off.

Janet Napolitano won't even admit there is a threat from radical muslims.

We are doomed. All you can hope for is that the passengers will save the plane.
(and their own lives.)

Make up your mind right now, If you are on a flight, and see a guy trying to start a fire, or similar weird acts, you will take immediate action.
The passengers are the only hope.
 
#19 ·
^^^^^^^^^^^^^YEP!!!!^^^^^^^^^^



"When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading."
~ Henny Youngman
 
#26 ·
Yes, a few. The sky marshall program is not very high on the agenda of the political hacks in DC.



Someones's 9mm. Used to be a Sig 228.
Actually, the Federal Air Marshal program (has not been "Sky Marshals" in many, many years) has grown exponentially since 09/11. Absolutely no comparison. It used to be a handful of guys. Now it is a large law enforcement agency. That is not to say there are enough, but it certainly is not a rinky-**** outfit. And they do not carry the P228 or any 9mm pistol. They currently carry the P229 in .357Sig, however they recently announced a planned switch to the new Sig P250.
Gonzo
 
#22 ·
PETN - Pentaerythritol tetranitrate. Detonation cord. Burns at the rate of 4 miles per second. I took some classes on destruction of nuclear weapons at Nuclear Weapons Training Group, Pacific at North Island Naval Air Station. The instructors took a 100 yard length of PETN det cord and stretched it out between two poles (obviously a little less than 100 yards apart). A flag was attached every 10 feet. Only one end was lit, and we were supposed to guess which end was lit. It was, in fact a guess, because the flags seemed to drop at the same time. We figured that it would take roughly 4 minutes to burn from NAS North Island to Hunters Point.

We also used it to cut down small trees in Vietnam. Amazing stuff.

Good old Janet, "The system worked." Yup, sure as hell did - for the Bad Guy. Good thing the passengers and not Homeland Security were there to save the day.
 
#25 ·
Something really STINKS!

Oconomowoc Family Survives Terrorist Attempt | Newsradio 620 - Milwaukee, Wisconsin News, Talk, Sports, Weather | Local Headlines

They were sitting about 20 rows behind Abdulmutallab, in a center aisle with her husband and daughter a row ahead of her and their two new adopted children, a six-year-old girl and an eight-year-old boy.

Her daughter said that ahead of them was a man who videotaped the entire flight, including the attempted detonation.

"He sat up and videotaped the entire thing, very calmly," said Patricia. "We do know that the FBI is looking for him intensely. Since then, we've heard nothing about it."
 
#37 ·
Practice run to see where the problems with the delivery system were. Also to see if/what the Air Marshall response, crew response, etc would be to the situation.
Don't know if they are counting on resistance from other passengers or not. That would be hard to plan for, too many variables.
Adds to the amount of people you need on board, methods to control/overpower the civilians..etc. all of that makes the job that much harder to pull off. Then you have to problem of information leaking out about the plan, FBI picking up some low level flunky...etc.
 
#34 ·
We have some bomb squad guys on our Hazmat team. It's pretty easy to make up binaries and disguise them. Super easy to work, I'm surprised it hasn't been done before.

When I was assigned to an airport FD station, the TSA folks were pretty low speed security guard types.

I know the FFDO that shoots at the range where I work has an H&K USP compact in .40 with a popular brand of bonded bullet as issued. He believes the AM's use Sig in .357sig.
 
#36 ·
Im still in disbelief that Napolitano is head of DHS. She couldn't even keep illegal immigrants out of AZ. What makes anyone think she is qualified to keep our country safe... oh wait... it's Obama.

That's some scary stuff.
 
#38 ·
PETN Device

This was a practice run with an idiot student. Our system failed to stop him with the info listed earlier. The passengers did rise to the ocassion. Bring him into my First/Business Class area restrained and I will push one of the Metal Knives that are served in First/Business Class trays for dinner into his neck and check his response to that! I have an old friend that was a Pilot for Delta that had an attempted Hi-Jacking to Cuba in the early 1970's, who stopped it, sat on the Hi-Jacker and had the co-pilot land the 727 and when he stopped short of the terminal, opened the left front door of the jet and kicked the hi-jacker to the tarmac just in front of the police car arriving to handle the situation. These terrorists should get even less treatment.
 
#40 ·
Bring him into my First/Business Class area restrained and I will push one of the Metal Knives that are served in First/Business Class trays for dinner into his neck and check his response to that!
I am amazed that passengers let this guy live. I want to see the news story, "Authorities are trying to identify the body of the suspected terrorist. The passengers subdued him with several hundred blows to the face while he was on the floor."
 
#39 ·
There are a lot of chemicals that will explode nicely when combined. The "binary" video looks faked to me. But there are compounds that will do that to a watermelon. And everything else in that video camera's view.

The real problem is the "show" security. I sat down after the new security rules were announced (pat downs, for last hour of flight there will be no getting up, no lavatories, no drinks, no food, no ipods, no blankets, no reading material, hands where they can be seen at all times) and figured out two separate ways a suicide bomber could still sneak a detonator and enough explosive on board to destroy an aircraft.

How about we screen people who want to come to this country better? Especially those whose religion is radical Islam.
 
#42 ·
I think we should just turn over the whole TSA to EL AL (Israeli Airline). They deal with this stuff everyday.
Yes. But remember after 9/11, the government came up with DHS. Everyone who knew anything about airline security said it MUST be a private company, like Israel has. But no, we got the TSA, mostly nice folks, but with no leadership, no rules, no incentives. Big government got another big union, guaranteed to vote for democrats.

If it was me, I'd be saying, "Hello, Blackwater."

To be fair, the US is way larger than Israel, and we might have 30,000 planes in the air at a given time. EL AL might have what? A hundred?
When you are in line at El Al, you are being profiled by several individuals. Then you will be interviewed. Then your bag will be searched inside and out. Then you will be searched. If you talk to anyone in line, they will be questioned too. If you bought a one way ticket, with cash, and have no luggage, (like the Nigerian) you probably aren't getting on the plane.
The magic word? PROFILE. It works.

I once went through London Gatwick. Before I even got to the ticket counter, I was interviewed by a nice gentleman in a suit. He stared right through me. Then I was on my way. I suppose he was looking for a reaction.
The actual security was no more than here. Except for the camera taking my picture and the camera taking a picture of my passport at the same time. (And that was Delta)
 
#43 ·
All this stuff lately about the airlines is making me very nervous. I will not watch some bonehead assemble a bomb and make attempts to light it....I'm not sure how I would react to someone video taping me either. I hope they can come up with some solutions to airport security that actually work.

I have no desire to go anywhere close to DC. HOWEVER, I have to attend a family wedding out there next August. The worst part is most of the wedding events are in MD and DC so I won't be taking my EDC. Wish they were just on the other side of the beltway in VA as my UT permit would work there.
 
#45 ·
We have a president that is trying to destroy the economic system that keeps this country ahead of the curve, appoints a racist to the supreme court that can find no right to self defense, has fools in key positions in the federal government like Napolitano, thinks carbon dioxide is a hazardous material, supports carbon taxes that will cripple our industry and leave our competitors free of restrictions, and believes in global warming. He is able to do this because of support of the democratic party.
 
#48 ·
We have a president that is trying to destroy the economic system that keeps this country ahead of the curve, appoints a racist to the supreme court that can find no right to self defense, has fools in key positions in the federal government like Napolitano, thinks carbon dioxide is a hazardous material, supports carbon taxes that will cripple our industry and leave our competitors free of restrictions, and believes in global warming. He is able to do this because of support of the democratic party.
If stupidity was a crime, 85% of our population would be guilty!:frown:
 
#49 ·
The unusual good luck that saved those people will not save the next plane-load. We need to make the screening process better or order a large number of body bags.

'Profiling' may be politically incorrect, but that is how we catch serial killers. It will also work for terrorists. Why waste time and assets strip searching Norwegian grandmothers and let 20-something middle-eastern males pass through?
 
#51 ·
God help us. That's a lifetime appointment.:aargh4:

2012 cannot get here soon enough.
 
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