Sheriff monitoring UPS shipments

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Thread: Sheriff monitoring UPS shipments

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array rottkeeper's Avatar
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    Sheriff monitoring UPS shipments

    After I finished shooting tonight at my club a bunch of us sat around shooting the breeze about NY and the gun laws amongst other earth shattering topics.

    One of the members was talking about ordering some reloading supplies from Midway USA, another member piped up and said, '' I hope you don't live in Montgomery County''. At the same time another piped in and said, '' yeh I here the sheriff gets reports from UPS about people getting shipments of reloading supplies''.

    While I was at first going to write it off as a paranoia thing others spoke up as to hearing the same thing.

    I guess I am questioning the legality of it, would this be against any criminal or civil laws? That would be tracking people who are not suspected of any crime, just law abiding re-loaders. If true, what can be done to stop it?
    For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the son of man be. Mathew 24:27

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Array dnowell's Avatar
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    If you've got serious money to throw at the problem you could hit the sheriff's office with a freedom of information act request, but unless you get a good lawyer behind the effort it'll be a waste of time.

  4. #3
    Distinguished Member Array Chooie's Avatar
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    From the UPS website:

    Shipment Information

    Information, including Personal Information, provided as part of a shipping transaction represents a record of that business transaction and cannot be altered after the transaction is complete except as provided in the UPS Terms and Conditions. The UPS Terms and Conditions are available at Shipping, Freight, Logistics and Supply Chain Management from UPS in the Customer Service section of the Support tab and at local UPS offices. Although we make reasonable efforts to limit access to our facilities and vehicles to authorized personnel, we are not responsible for maintaining the confidentiality of information that is printed and placed in plain view on a package or letter.
    Emphasis mine.

    Also from the UPS site:

    UPS Tracking Terms and Conditions

    The UPS package tracking systems accessed via this Web Site (the "Tracking Systems") and tracking information obtained through this Web Site (the "Information") are the private property of UPS. UPS authorizes you to use the Tracking Systems solely to track shipments tendered by or for you to UPS for delivery and for no other purpose. Without limitation, you are not authorized to make the Information available on any web site or otherwise reproduce, distribute, copy, store, use or sell the Information for commercial gain without the express written consent of UPS. This is a personal service, thus your right to use the Tracking Systems or Information is non-assignable. Any access or use that is inconsistent with these terms is unauthorized and strictly prohibited.
    I see this as if you didn't ship it or are not the intended recipient you are not authorized to use the system to track a package. Besides, UPS has no idea what is in a box - it's just a number to them, a package to be loaded, unloaded, and sorted. The only way I could see the sheriff even attempting this would be to somehow get a list of hazmat or orm-d shipments that go through UPS in his jurisdiction.

  5. #4
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Depends, a lot can be found out .... without people realizing it. Even Frank tells his buddy Sam, ya know.

    If it is nothing illegal, the Sheriff has no authority to monitor shipments .... the Feds might if they were doing an investigation into some criminal activity, but even then they may need to be able to back that up.

    Freedom of Info Act requests, only costs the price for them to copy the documents you request.

  6. #5
    Distinguished Member Array Chooie's Avatar
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    Unless Frank opened the box and read the manifest how would he know what to tell Sheriff Sam? I used to work for UPS - I know how many packages an hour go through the system. There is no way that a good ol' boy loading trucks is going to recognize the return address of a shooting/reloading supply company. On average, we loaded anywhere from 275 to 600 packages per HOUR... that's checking the zip code, scanning it, and putting it into the wall of boxes you're building in a 54' truck. You don't even have a chance to read an address - you're only looking for the large digits of the zip code to tell you if it's actually for your truck. I remember it like it was yesterday, and it was over a decade ago. For some reason the load I worked in always had a ton of big Dell computer boxes, paper boxes, and mixed in with that big lightweight boxes from Victoria's Secret. There is nothing worse than having your belt backed up because a box of underwear burst with 500 pounds of printer paper and computers pushing against it, and now you've got to shut down the line because there are g-strings tangled up in the rollers.

    Not good, but I digress...

    Like I said - the only way I could see this sheriff doing anything of the sort is by tracking hazmat shipments and speculating from that information that reloading supplies were being shipped. As it is, complete ammunition is not considered hazmat - it is ORM-D.

    Unless, of course, the Sheriff paid off all of the UPS drivers in his county...


  7. #6
    VIP Member Array rottkeeper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chooie View Post
    From the UPS website:



    Emphasis mine.

    Also from the UPS site:



    I see this as if you didn't ship it or are not the intended recipient you are not authorized to use the system to track a package. Besides, UPS has no idea what is in a box - it's just a number to them, a package to be loaded, unloaded, and sorted. The only way I could see the sheriff even attempting this would be to somehow get a list of hazmat or orm-d shipments that go through UPS in his jurisdiction.
    I'm sure they know from the return address that the shipment contains some type of firearms or ammo type contents, be it powder, bullets or whatever. I find it hard to believe but our great sheriff is not such a great guy. He doesn't have a high regard for the 2a.

    ETA: Chooie's post answering this question beat mine to the punch
    For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the son of man be. Mathew 24:27

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  8. #7
    Distinguished Member Array Chooie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rottkeeper View Post
    I'm sure they know from the return address that the shipment contains some type of firearms or ammo type contents, be it powder, bullets or whatever. I find it hard to believe but our great sheriff is not such a great guy. He doesn't have a high regard for the 2a.
    "they"? Who is "they"? Is the Sheriff hanging out at the UPS distribution hub reading the return addresses of thousands of packages per hour? Is he coming by your house and looking at boxes on your porch?

    Like I said...


  9. #8
    Senior Member Array TheShadow's Avatar
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    Sheriff Sam ought to be out fighting crime If he wants to be re-elected
    “Put your pain in a box. Lock it down. No man is stronger than one who can harness his emotions.” -Act of Valor

  10. #9
    VIP Member Array rottkeeper's Avatar
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    Chooie, It's not the complete ammo that they are concerned with but reloading components such as gun powder and bullets etc.
    For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the son of man be. Mathew 24:27

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  11. #10
    Distinguished Member Array Chooie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rottkeeper View Post
    Chooie, It's not the complete ammo that they are concerned with but reloading components such as gun powder and bullets etc.

    Look, I know that this has you worried - but sit back and think about the logistics of it. UPS does not know what is in the boxes unless it has a red and white hazmat form attached to it - and even then it only states the chemical name and its hazards, not a breakdown of the shipment (i.e. it will have the chemical composition and reactivity and explosive class for primers or powder, NOT "500pcs small pistol primer"). If UPS does not know what you are getting, how can they possibly pass information on to the sheriff? If UPS is not providing info to the sheriff, where does he get it? Do the hundreds of merchants that sell reloading supplies report directly to him? Is he peeking in all of the boxes? If so there would be some kind of record of a blanket search warrant, right? If not, how is he legally doing so?

    Think about it... it's not feasible. To me this sounds like gun shop BS, trying to get the sheriff replaced come the next election cycle - or to sell you supplies locally, at a healthy profit. If the sheriff is anti-2A, boot him out of office next time you vote.

  12. #11
    Member Array ScubaDuba's Avatar
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    It isn't that big a deal. UPS just tracks where explosives are going. If you're paranoid, go to a gun shop and buy powder with cash. If there is a conspiracy, it's an expensive one for little reward.
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    VIP Member Array rottkeeper's Avatar
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    Chooie, Thanks for the info.

    As I said in my OP I was ready to write it off anyway. I wanted to get some opinions as to the actual fees-ability of monitoring shipments for my own knowledge.
    For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the son of man be. Mathew 24:27

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  14. #13
    Member Array REDTAIL's Avatar
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    When ever I get a ups package that contains ammo or primers etc the box has a small blue sticker on it that say's something like ORM-D small arms ammunition etc. that's about all that tells what's in the box.

  15. #14
    VIP Member Array rottkeeper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by REDTAIL View Post
    When ever I get a ups package that contains ammo or primers etc the box has a small blue sticker on it that say's something like ORM-D small arms ammunition etc. that's about all that tells what's in the box.
    I buy all my stuff in local shops so I have not seen how it's packaged. For the most part I get a good enough deal locally that the shipping costs usually make the product come out about the same.
    For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the son of man be. Mathew 24:27

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  16. #15
    New Member Array holdorf333's Avatar
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    The only thing that would be marked would be hazmat, but I REALLY seriously doubt that the SD would have any pull whatsoever in ordering, requiring or even bribing their way into specific item monitoring practicing. As described, the practical implimentation would need to have a means of conveyance and I don't see an organization who's bread and butter is expeditious moving of parcels would build in some wildly specific flagging procedure to satisfy the curiousity of some county sherrif who has absoloutely no legal right to demand such a thing.

    Paranoia, IMO.

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