Virginia Carry and LEOSA

This is a discussion on Virginia Carry and LEOSA within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I'll be visiting Virginia shortly, carrying concealed under LEOSA and will be going out to eat. I've heard of the Virginia tuck but I am ...

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Thread: Virginia Carry and LEOSA

  1. #1
    Member Array gmark340's Avatar
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    Virginia Carry and LEOSA

    I'll be visiting Virginia shortly, carrying concealed under LEOSA and will be going out to eat. I've heard of the Virginia tuck but I am looking at the Code of Virginia, Section 18.2-308 J3 (I attempted to underline a phrase):

    "J3. No person shall carry a concealed handgun onto the premises of any restaurant or club as defined in 4.1-100 for which a license to sell and serve alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption has been granted by the Virginia Alcoholic Beverage Control Board under Title 4.1 of the Code of Virginia; however, nothing herein shall prohibit
    any sworn law-enforcement officer or any retired law-enforcement officer who meets the definition of a "qualified retired law-enforcement officer" pursuant to 18 U.S.C. 926C and is carrying the identification required by such statute from carrying a concealed handgun on the premises of such restaurant or club or any owner or event sponsor or his employees from carrying a concealed handgun while on duty at such restaurant or club if such person has a concealed handgun permit.

    As I interpret this Section, perhaps incorrectly, a sworn officer could remain concealed and not have to do the Virginia tuck. The big question, if I am correct, is whether the definition of sworn officer extends to out of state officers. Anyone?

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    Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act of 2004 (Public Law 108-277):

    Virginia honors the provisions of the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act of 2004 (Public Law 108-277) for active and retired law enforcement officers. Active officers must present a photographic identification issued by the governmental agency for which the individual is employed as a law enforcement officer. Retired officers must present a photographic identification issued by the agency from which the individual retired from service as a law enforcement officer; and a certification issued by the State in which the individual resides that indicates that the individual has, not less recently than one year before the date the individual is carrying the concealed firearm, been tested or otherwise found by the State to meet the standards established by the State for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm.
    IANAL but the way I read it you are in the same category as a AD or Retired VA LEO. A quick call to the VA State Police should be able to get you a definite answer to the question.


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    P.O. Box 27472 Richmond, VA 23261

    Phone: (804) 674-2000

    Fax: (804) 674-2936
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    Member Array gmark340's Avatar
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    Thanks, had thought of that but hadn't gotten around to looking up the number. I'll report the result back here.

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    LEOSA exempts active and qualified retired LEOs from state laws. That's the purpose of LEOSA and is clearly stated in the very first sentence of LEOSA. Otherwise LEOSA would not be applicable in states that do not have CCW or limit CCW in any way.
    "(a) Notwithstanding any other provision of the law of any State or
    any political subdivision thereof,". That means in common everyday language "state laws do not apply".


    LEOSA is also very specific as to the only 2 ways to restrict a LEO/retiree from carrying.
    "(b) This section shall not be construed to supersede or limit the
    laws of any State that--
    (1) permit private persons or entities to prohibit or restrict the possession of concealed firearms on their property;
    or
    (2) prohibit or restrict the possession of firearms on any State or local government property, installation, building, base, or park."

    That makes it very clear. A private entity can prohibit carrying on their property and the government can prohibit carrying on government property. LEOSA does not give any government entity the authority to prohibit on private property, only the property owner can prohibit a LEO/retiree from carrying on private property. (2) does not give the states the right to prohibit carrying on private property. So if the government does not own the bar/restaurant then (2) does not apply. If the bar/restaurant is privately owned then (1) applies.
    183 FBINA

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    Member Array gmark340's Avatar
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    ispcapt I agree with what you stated above. However, notwithstanding what we both may think is clear and unambiguous language in the law, the lack of case law may cause some, such as myself, to be a little more cautious. The federal statue may say we "can" but some states still think we "may not" and I'm not sure it will be any fun being the test case. NJ, my home state, comes to mind. I chose a G19 for a duty gun for my out of state jurisdiction instead of a G17 so I don't have to deal with the hi-cap magazine issue in NJ (> 15 rds.) should I chose to carry it off duty. In addition, I was just in a class with a bunch of NJ cops and got on the topic of hollow points, another NJ issue. They arrest out of state cops who would otherwise be carrying legitimately but for their hollow points. Of course, there is more to the story in terms of how a NJ cop finds out the out of state cop was carrying with hollow points (turns out in one particular instance the out of stater left his gun in a hotel room safe and it was found after he checked out) but the fact is that NJ still thinks it can make these cases. Thus a modicum of caution on my part in heading to an unfamiliar jurisdiction.

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    Member Array ispcapt's Avatar
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    Mags and ammo are completely different issues. Nothing in LEOSA addresses or provides exemption for mag size limits or restrictions on types of ammo. LEOSA ONLY address the ability to carry.
    LEOSA is pretty simple. LEOSA has been law for 5.5 years. Don't make it complicated. All the states are well aware of what it says and means. You won't be the first LEO to travel to VA or any other state. All you have to do is a search of "LEOSA" and the state and you'll find the info for that state.
    Here's for VA:
    http://www.dcjs.virginia.gov/standar...oSafetyAct.pdf
    183 FBINA

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    Member Array gmark340's Avatar
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    Good one. Thank you.

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    I couldn't reach anyone at the VA State Police on the phone but they do have email addresses on one of their pages. A very responsive person in the Firearms Transaction Section confirmed that any LEO, not just VA, would be exempt, as ispcapt anticipated.

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    Glad to see you got the definitive answer from the VSP. Just saw this and was going to say you would be ok with your id. Have a good trip, if it is soon bring snow gear.
    Procrastinators are the leaders of tomorrow.

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    Member Array gmark340's Avatar
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    Ha! Looks like the trip will be delayed a week or two to let the area dig out.

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