Hired guns secure ships, stir controversy - Page 3

Hired guns secure ships, stir controversy

This is a discussion on Hired guns secure ships, stir controversy within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by Xader Nah, they'd just deploy a carrier to the area....oh wait.... http://defensetech.org/2011/05/12/th...carriers-back/ The Royal Navy would fire a shot across the bows ...

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Thread: Hired guns secure ships, stir controversy

  1. #31
    Member Array Scouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xader View Post
    Nah, they'd just deploy a carrier to the area....oh wait....

    http://defensetech.org/2011/05/12/th...carriers-back/
    The Royal Navy would fire a shot across the bows of any vessel they deemed a threat. In international waters.

    If the threat vessel did not leave, they would sink it.

    When you read the tripe the Brits and Irish spout about fighting back, discount it. Private Security, .50s Semi Auto ten round magazines, and 762X51 Rifles. RPG 7 Grenades, around a 900m range, against a ship. No fun.

    You can not carry self defense weapons of any kind "Over ome" I leave my Glock 19 behind, take my City Stick, need a cane, an old guy don't you know. Pull a knife on me, I will do my best to put you in the ground. I have been stabbed twice, no fun.


  2. #32
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by From the article
    "There are laws against a private individual killing a private individual, even if they are perceived to be pirates," Mason said. "You can’t go on the high seas, just like you can’t go on the streets of London, and shoot people likely to do harm to you."
    True. Though, at some point the perception is confirmed or refuted by the facts at hand.

    Once the demand to keep distance was repeatedly ignored, once RPG launchers were seen, once warning shots were ignored, particularly in waters known for being heavily prowled by violent pirates, the gloves (and most every remaining legal restrictions) come off. Why? Because impending death and destruction from the onrushing people is about the only remaining rational explanation at that point, as manifest by their actions.

    Don't want to be fired upon? Then don't bum rush someone else in a double-vessel approach in contravention of all normal/acceptable modes of lawfully hailing for someone's attention. They opted for hailing in a completely unacceptable, and obviously unjustifiable and lawless manner: and they got the appropriate response.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
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  3. #33
    VIP Member Array Crowman's Avatar
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    I could have sworn that throughout history there weren't many rules (if any) on the high seas (beyond territorial boundaries) and pirates were always "free meat".
    "One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation."
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    Second Amendment -- Established December 15, 1791 and slowly eroded ever since What happened to "..... shall not be infringed."

  4. #34
    Senior Member Array CIBMike's Avatar
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    This Mason guy is an idiot ,these security forces aren't activley seeking engagment .They aren't killing people likely to do them harm as he say's ,they are repelling deliberate attackers who will harm people if they get aboard.His points are out of context to the reality of the situation.
    The easy way is always mined.

  5. #35
    VIP Member Array paaiyan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    I think they oughta offer free cruises to anyone who wants to man a gun station
    I think my wife and I would both go with that. Free cruise and access to a .50MG? Heck yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crowman View Post
    I could have sworn that throughout history there weren't many rules (if any) on the high seas (beyond territorial boundaries) and pirates were always "free meat".
    From Wikipedia, so take it with a grain of salt:

    "Piracy is of note in international law as it is commonly held to represent the earliest invocation of the concept of universal jurisdiction. The crime of piracy is considered a breach of jus cogens, a conventional peremptory international norm that states must uphold. Those committing thefts on the high seas, inhibiting trade, and endangering maritime communication are considered by sovereign states to be hostis humani generis (enemies of humanity)."
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  6. #36
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CIBMike View Post
    these security forces aren't activley seeking engagment .They aren't killing people likely to do them harm as he say's ,they are repelling deliberate attackers who will harm people if they get aboard.
    Yup. Little different than firing on home invaders.

    Quote Originally Posted by From the article
    "It slightly smacks of vigilantism to me," said Tony Mason, secretary general of the International Chamber of Shipping and International Shipping Federation.
    If, by that, he means taking responsibility for surviving a deadly attack when "ringing 911" for assistance simply won't do, he's got a point. He actually appears to expect assistance/help in the open sea to come quickly enough to thwart an active act of piracy. That would truly be "dial a prayer." Frankly, such calls don't have a strong track record of being answered immediately by the man upstairs.

    On the open seas ... when help is needed, "police" are only multiple hours (even days) away.

    Hence, "vigilantism." Damned right.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
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  7. #37
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    I'm tired of policy being dictated by pansy's.

    What ever happened to common sense? Why do we even entertain these useless idiots that thump their chests and declare what we can do or not do? Part of the problem with most of these mommas boys is that their hands are so soft they couldn't even board a ship from a ladder or a rope without skinning their hands up and breaking their fingernails.

    You can’t go on the high seas, just like you can’t go on the streets of London, and shoot people likely to do harm to you."
    Why not? That is exactly what you are supposed to do and until the world was populated with leaders that never fought anything other than the trousers they put on in the morning, it was pretty common practice.

    For instance, even today, before you enter onto any vessel, you are supposed to ask for "permission to come aboard". That shows your intent, that you are there for a legal purpose. On military vessels, you will stand toward and salute the flag. The quarterdeck watch is usually armed. This tradition goes back to the days of pirates and is still in use by the U.S. Navy.

    When I was in 30 something years ago, you didn't even pull beside a warship without first communication your intent, either by loud voice or radio. You would then ask for permission to "pull along side".

    Now if you didn't signal your intent, any further movement toward the ship was considered hostile and was treated as such.

    Here is a fact...
    any craft approaching any ship at a high rate of speed is suspect and ought to be covered by nothing less than .50 caliber machine guns, with CWIZ or something similar that could blow you out of the water before you made contact.

    Here is another fact, any person entering upon a vessel with permission is considered to be trespassing.

    Any person considered to be armed is considered to be up to no good. Its not rocket surgery here.

    Like any other terrorist, not killing pirates on sight does nothing but encourage them. Not using force on force encourages them. Paying a ransom encourages them.
    Letting them do as they please while begging for mercy encourages them.

    If we had any leaders with a lick of sense and balls bigger than that of a piss-ant, we would be killing them on sight, and eventually,if we did that, there wouldn't be any left and pirates would be nothing more than stories that we could tell our grandchildren about. At the very least, they would see an American vessel, shrug their shoulders and look for a British ship or even better a French ship, where not only can they have their way, but probably get fed breakfast too.

    The way I see it, if you aren't against terrorism or any of its little sub-chapters, then you are for it. Why we give these little men that are afraid of arming themselves any air time at all never ceases to amaze me.

    The question becomes ‘who, ultimately, is in charge?’ "
    Here is a no brainer. The captain of the ship is ultimately in charge. If his crew happens to engage some rag tagged pirates and they wipe them out, then its doing everyone that sails thought that region a favor.

    Why we even consider anything less is ridiculous.
    wmhawth and ccw9mm like this.
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigkahuna View Post
    They aren't mercenaries. They are Privateers. Come on. Lets dust off those Letters of Marque and Reprisal.
    I like your idea....but I don't see the current administration signing them......

    Did you know that during the Revolutionary War, there were 2200 privateers?...Not 2200 sailors...2200 SHIPS! They were armed not with just flintlock...they had cannon. So much for the anti-gun argument that the 2nd Amendment only allows for 'flintlocks'......Privately armed gun boats......What a country we used to have.........
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  9. #39
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    Time for open season on the pirates. A tanker cannot afford to wait till they are in RPG range to act. Friend or foe must be dealt with away from the vessel. Escort craft from private companies make perfect sense to me. Violence is the only thing pirates understand. This should be a no-brainer. Just who makes the laws in the middle of the ocean? The one with the biggest guns.

  10. #40
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crowman View Post
    I could have sworn that throughout history there weren't many rules (if any) on the high seas (beyond territorial boundaries) and pirates were always "free meat".
    Yes but back then society did not care if the pirates were brought up by abusive parents, had possible mental problems that needed addressing or were just misunderstood. Back then we did not understand that the pirates wouldn't really hurt us. That they were just out having a bit of fun.

    Pirates need to be loved is all.

    Michael

  11. #41
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    "You shouldn't be on the high seas, shooting at people who will likely,,, do NO Harm to you,,, either"

    I say LOAD EM UP, HEAD EM OUT and the PIRATES be aware,,,,, a NEW DAY IS COMING THEIR WAY.

  12. #42
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    "You shouldn't be on the high seas, shooting at people who will likely,,, do NO Harm to you,,, either"
    Well, then: those seeking to approach other vessels shouldn't come at breakneck speed, ignoring "hailing" protocols, with a "wing man," bristling with RPG's and firearms (aka, those who are exceedingly likely to do harm to you, as their manifest intentions appear to show so clearly).
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  13. #43
    Member Array Scouse's Avatar
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    You know, on most ships that travel the high seas, there are normally ex Royal Navy sailor's, US Sailors or Marines.

    A 50cal, kind of hard to obtain. But good quality bolt action 308 rifles, can be just about be bought any where.

    I am not an expert on bolt action rifles, but have seen models that accept 20 round FN Magazines.

    Or other 20 round mags. With good optics, any vessel of light construction, IE Pirate Skiffs! Out to 800m, is not safe!

    Ten of these weapons, sighted in for US Mil Spec 7.62X51 (.308) cartridges, good to go. Steel mil spec cases of ammo! Quite a few.

    Decide on a range (this is as far as you get!) float a 55g drum off the fantail, empty, except be full of Styrofoam! Would take for ever to be sank by rifle fire.

    A couple of good quality Range Finders, sight your scopes in at 800m. Verify once a week. And night vision scopes. Hand held.

    Cleaning kits, storage in moisture free lockers, but two designated guards every shift, with rifles issued.

    Weld up some armor protection units, good to go.

  14. #44
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    Nice 2 year Necro Thread!

  15. #45
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    I did notice that it mentioned the streets of London. It's illegal to protect yourself in England so that rather tells the story.

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