Hired guns secure ships, stir controversy

This is a discussion on Hired guns secure ships, stir controversy within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; "There are laws against a private individual killing a private individual, even if they are perceived to be pirates," Mason said. "You can’t go on ...

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Thread: Hired guns secure ships, stir controversy

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    VIP Member Array tns0038's Avatar
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    Hired guns secure ships, stir controversy

    "There are laws against a private individual killing a private individual, even if they are perceived to be pirates," Mason said. "You can’t go on the high seas, just like you can’t go on the streets of London, and shoot people likely to do harm to you."
    What not.. why can't corporation protect their ships

    Hired guns secure ships, stir controversy | Stars and Stripes

    what do you think?
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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    I think they oughta offer free cruises to anyone who wants to man a gun station
    40Bob, RichB70, W9HDG and 4 others like this.
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    You'll notice they didn't say:
    just like you can’t go on the streets of Texas, and shoot people likely to do harm to you.


    The "give in and let them have what they want" crowd are international.
    eschew obfuscation

    The only thing that stops bad guys with guns is good guys with guns. SgtD

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    Of course, it isn't a coincidence that the two guys against private security are bureaucrats with no financial or personal stake in a ship being attacked by pirates. Obviously, their personal safety is not involved.

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    To paraphrase a common saying... when seconds count, the navy is hours away...

    Shippers have a right to protect their crews and their cargo. More power to 'em, I say.

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    I just watched a show yesterday about the hijacking of tha Alabama. The hijackers took to a life boat with the captain as hostage. They were eventually killed by Navy Seal snipers.

    These shipping companies are paying huge ransoms for their crews. One ransom was $3 million.

    So $25,000 to $54,000 sounds like a pretty good deal to me.
    Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.

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    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    I think they oughta offer free cruises to anyone who wants to man a gun station
    Agreed.

    BTW the ransom paid is not 'free' money printed by some blokes with an HP printer, Inovo Thinkpad and a copy of Photoshop.

    This is money that winds up being charged back to some customer(s) either directly via the shipper or their insurer as through aggregated increase of customer fees in to the future.

    Peter pays Paul; $3M or so _per incident_.

    - Janq
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    Somali Cruises - Cruise along Africa's east coast!

    Check out this website.

    They offer Somali "Safaris"

    We sail up and down the coast of Somalia waiting to get hijacked by pirates. We encourage you to bring your 'High powered weapons' along on the cruise. If you don't have weapons of your own, you can rent them on the boat.
    We guarantee that you will experience at least two hijacking attempts by pirates or we will refund half your money back, including gun rental charges and any unused ammo (mini gun charges not included).
    ducatirider, Chris Dawg and foamx like this.

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    This is ridiculous. Have these morons take a few rides through the Gulf of Aden, and see how safe the feel when a rickety boat of Somali's with AK's start tailing them. Its not like these security guys wouldn't fire a few warning shots first. If the idiots keep at it after that, how can one honestly say they are not pirates? Besides, mercenaries fighting pirates sounds awesome.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    I think they oughta offer free cruises to anyone who wants to man a gun station
    Book me a room for two
    Timid people sleep peacefully at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.


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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tns0038 View Post
    "There are laws against a private individual killing a private individual, even if they are perceived to be pirates," Mason said. "You can’t go on the high seas, just like you can’t go on the streets of London, and shoot people likely to do harm to you."
    What not.. why can't corporation protect their ships
    I agree with the sentiment against killing indiscriminately. Can't very well do it ahead of the crime and ahead of knowing the criminals, since at that point there is no real justification other than fear, which is a pretty weak reason by itself.

    IMO, being prepared to act forcefully and effectively in situations requiring the repelling of boarders makes perfect sense. In the same way that having no such preparations makes no sense at all.

    "It slightly smacks of vigilantism to me," said Tony Mason, secretary general of the International Chamber of Shipping and International Shipping Federation.

    "It poses a lot of questions, like under what rules of engagement will they operate?" Mason asked.
    Sounds like someone who has never personally been under attack and had to stop one.

    The only question is poses, to me, is whether such preparations and actions will be effective. Little different than what happens with any citizen when he/she decides to resist a crime in progress.

    Having such ability to repel attack isn't taking law into your own hands. It's merely thwarting murderous crimes as they are underway. Piracy can be one of the ugliest crimes. It has existed for as long as boats have. The "rules" wouldn't really be much different from the basic procedures any citizen follows when thwarting a crime currently underway. Other than the international wrinkle of being outside of territorial waters much of the time, there doesn't seem to be much of a problem.

    And his security teams share any incidents and intelligence with the military leaders in the region, though they are not required to do so.
    I wonder just how many such military leaders are in cahoots with pirates, providing some measure of protection. In such circumstances, sharing of intel could harm things badly, in the area.
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    Hell sounds like fun to me, I'd go, but the wheelchair doesn't like bulkheads or stairs so the bathtub is as far as my boat security goes for the moment
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    I'd like to see "Tag a Pirate Cruises"...
    Free ammo...
    Prizes...
    Perhaps even become an Olympic Event...
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    Wow..."tag a pirate"...for gold,silver or bronze....hmmm,you couldn't print enough tickets!

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    Let's transplant the problem pirates and vessel being boarded to the great lakes (just cause I know the laws here, should apply to many other states).

    I'm gonna have to say that using force on anyone attempting to board a vessel without permission should be hold up in court just fine, as lethal force is justified to prevent kidnapping. No, we don't have to wait for them to say "I'm kidnapping you" either. Very specifically, it is a rebuttable presumption in MI courts that if someone invades your home that the occupant will believe that the intruder has intent to do great bodily harm (some exceptions if the "invader" has lived there, is family, LE...). Also, use of force, up to and including lethal, is justified here to prevent the forcible removal from a vehicle. Maybe on the great lakes we couldn't engage just any boat that approaches the big vessel, but as soon as we see intent to board...time for make bang bang.
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