VCDL to protest at the Richmond library -- Wednesday, August 15th

This is a discussion on VCDL to protest at the Richmond library -- Wednesday, August 15th within the Member Meeting Place forums, part of the The Back Porch category; [Re-posted from a VA-ALERT with prior approval of VCDL] Anyone who supports the RKBAs is a welcome guest. [First person singular pronouns (I, my, mine, ...

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Thread: VCDL to protest at the Richmond library -- Wednesday, August 15th

  1. #1
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    Thumbs up VCDL to protest at the Richmond library -- Wednesday, August 15th

    [Re-posted from a VA-ALERT with prior approval of VCDL]

    Anyone who supports the RKBAs is a welcome guest.

    [First person singular pronouns (I, my, mine, etc) and PVC reference Philip Van Cleave, President VCDL]


    THE ISSUE

    As I reported a few days ago, the Richmond City libraries had a policy on their web site claiming that all concealed weapons were illegal under state law. (That, of course, has never been true.)

    Upon contacting the person in charge, I was told the policy on the web was wrong and had mistakenly not been updated to match their current policy. She said they were going to fix the wording.

    I explained that the entire item about guns should simply be removed, since the library has absolutely no control over whether a person lawfully carrying a firearm enters the library or not. The only thing such a policy would do is confuse and discourage citizens from carrying in a library. The purpose of government is not to "trick" citizens into giving up rights that government employees might not agree with.

    She said the new wording, "Carrying concealed weapons is prohibited, except as permitted by law" was approved by the City Attorney. I said that while that wording was LEGAL, it is still reprehensible to use it.

    I waited to see what the library was going to do. If they removed all mention of firearms, I figured we'd be done. If they didn't, then we would need to educate gun owners in central Virginia, much as we did with a protest picnic out in Roanoke County a few weeks. ago.

    Well, they "fixed" the wording, but did not remove it.

    It's time for a protest!

    THE PLAN

    As I see it, they are discouraging CONCEALED carry in the library with their confusing policy. So, I guess they want everyone to OPEN carry. So be it.

    Let's have a "read-in," where we all show up at the main library and enjoy reading some books for an hour or two. A big turnout as always is a plus, so bring friends, family, and kids!

    I expect media coverage of the event. FIVE gun owners sitting at a table reading books is not going to be as impressive as FIFTY doing so.

    I plan to call the Richmond Police Department to give them the courtesy of a heads-up on our upcoming lawful assembly.

    The protest is important so that we can get the word out to gun owners that carrying a gun in a library is perfectly legal, either openly with or without a CHP or concealed with a CHP.

    WHEN AND WHERE

    Time & date: Wednesday, August 15th, from 5 PM to 7 PM

    Richmond Public Library, Main Branch
    101 East Franklin Street
    Richmond, VA 23219

    If you plan on attending, respond to this alert and let me know so I can get a head count.

    Let's roll!

    VA-ALERT is a project of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc.
    (VCDL). VCDL is an all-volunteer, non-partisan grassroots organization
    dedicated to defending the human rights of all Virginians. The Right to
    Keep and Bear Arms is a fundamental human right.

    VCDL web page: Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc. (VCDL) [http://www.vcdl.org/]
    Μολὼν λαβέ

    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Array VBVAGUY's Avatar
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    Too bad Richmond is 2 hours away from me. If it was closer I would have joined you all. Good luck and God Bless !!!

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    Member Array guardian4u's Avatar
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    Thanks for dropping by SW VA ! Education is definitely needed. This area,IMO, is still under pressure since the VA Tech incident.

  5. #4
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    Richmond Times-Dispatch coverage

    Pro-gun organization plans a 'read-in' at Richmond Public Library's main branch | Richmond Times-Dispatch

    Pro-gun organization plans a 'read-in' at Richmond Public Library's main branch

    By: Kristen Green | Richmond Times-Dispatch
    Published: August 15, 2012

    RICHMOND, Va. --
    A Virginia pro-gun organization is planning a "read-in" at the Richmond Public Library's main branch today to protest the wording of the library's gun rule.

    Philip Van Cleave, president of the Virginia Citizens Defense League Inc., said he plans to wear a gun to the event.

    Van Cleave said he reached out to the library last week after learning that the library's posted rules said "carrying concealed weapons of any type is prohibited by State Law." He informed the library that the language was incorrect and asked that the library delete references to guns altogether.

    The library has since changed the wording of its rule to read "carrying concealed weapons is prohibited, except as permitted by law." But Van Cleave's organization isn't satisfied.

    "We believe that it's intentionally confusing, that they wanted something that would cause the ordinary person not to be able to understand the rules," said Cleave, a concealed permit holder who wears a gun almost everywhere he goes. "They're discouraging people who might otherwise lawfully carry a concealed handgun."

    Gun owners can legally carry their weapons into libraries, as well as local government buildings, parks and grocery stores.

    The library referred calls for comment to Tammy D. Hawley, press secretary for Mayor Dwight C. Jones. Hawley said the wording the library used was approved by the city attorney.

    "It is in compliance with the law," she said. "We don't find the wording confusing." [PVC: Who is "we?" The City Attorneys? Of course an attorney would understand. But how about the police or a regular citizen?]

    She said she would expect that members of VCDL know what the law is. [PVC: What about non-VCDL members?]

    Andrew Goddard, president of The Virginia Center for Public Safety, said he found it interesting that VCDL is pushing for new language when gun owners are already allowed to carry their weapons into the library. [PVC: We are NOT pushing for new language. We are pushing to have the existing language REMOVED.]

    "They need to have it spelled out in some obscure website somewhere in language that they like," Goddard said. [PVC: The language we like is NO language at all.]

    He said he would like to see libraries be gun free because they are filled with people who may be intimidated by guns, such as mothers with young children. He said he doesn't think that gun owners' rights to carry their guns should infringe on others. [PVC: Some of those carrying, Andrew, are going to be mothers with young children! ;-) ]

    But Van Cleave said a gun owner who leaves his weapon at home when he goes to the library could be putting his or her life at risk.

    "If something bad happens, that person could end up being killed when they could have saved their lives," he said.

    He complained that it's not government's role to discourage people from carrying weapons.

    "Those are our servants," he said. "They're not to put up confusing things to strip away our rights or make us think we don't have rights when we actually do."
    Μολὼν λαβέ

    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

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    More coverage and after report

    [Re-posted from a VA-ALERT with prior approval of VCDL]

    Anyone who supports the RKBAs is a welcome guest.

    [First person singular pronouns (I, my, mine, etc) and PVC reference Philip Van Cleave, President VCDL]


    We had over 30 members show up at the main Richmond library. Even some non-members who just happened to be at the library wore our Gun Save Lives stickers. We had a good number of women and some families. We even had a toddler and some other young kids wearing GSL stickers.

    The media was there in force - Channel 6 (CBS), Channel 8 (ABC), Channel 12 (NBC), and the Richmond Times-Dispatch. I will also be interviewed about the protest tomorrow morning for WRVA, AM 1140. Tremendous coverage.

    And the media didn't show up for 5 minutes and leave. Most were there from around 4:15 PM to around 6 PM. I was extensively interviewed by all of them (the Times-Dispatch should have some video on their web site, as well). I was on LIVE at 6 PM with Channel 8. Video from the event, as well as video shot by member Don Litton, should be up on the web soon and I will run a separate alert so you can see the press coverage.

    Lots of members and other library customers and staff were interviewed, as well.

    Dennis O'Connor told me that one of the reporters was looking hard for somebody at the library to be "shocked" by all the people carrying guns in the library. She wasn't having any luck, but she was really pushing one man very hard with repeated questions of, "Aren't you concerned about all these people carrying guns?" He said he wasn't, but she kept after him and asked him to step outside, so I have no idea if he relented under pressure. I guess we'll see what's on the news tonight. Not exactly what reporters are supposed to do...

    VCDL members behaved as expected - quiet and respectful of the others in the library. Most members carried carried openly.

    The media spent a lot of time filming gun owners reading books. Pretty much an uneventful day at the library. ;-)

    Around 6:30 PM two Richmond PD officers walked up the steps on their way into the library as part of their beat. I had a very pleasant conversation with them and they were very professional. They thanked me for phoning their Sergeant and giving the PD the courtesy of a "heads up" on the event. They left shortly thereafter.

    One odd event - one of the reporters asked a member if she could hold his gun. It was actually an innocent request, as she only wanted a prop for her story. The member, thankfully, declined to touch his weapon in public, much less hand it to someone. I took her aside and explained why it is a bad idea to handle a firearm in public places, such as on sidewalks, libraries, and restaurants. She quickly realized the err of her ways and admitted it was a bad idea. An educational moment for her and she took it gracefully.

    All in all, an excellent event! And VCDL will achieve its main goal with all of this - to educate central Virginia's gun owners as to their rights, regardless of the intentionally confusing wording of the library's policy on guns.

    I would hope that the Richmond Library would remove the confusing rule from their policy after being shamed for what they are doing, but I'm not holding my breath. :-(

    One final note. As I said before, if the Richmond LIbrary wants to keep that confusing concealed carry language, then I am going to open carry when visiting City libraries. That's the message they are sending me, so be it.

    VCDL - you guys are great!
    VA-ALERT is a project of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc. (VCDL).

    VCDL is an all-volunteer, non-partisan grassroots organization dedicated to defending the human rights of all Virginians. The Right to Keep and Bear Arms is a fundamental human right.

    VCDL web page: http://www.vcdl.org [http://www.vcdl.org/]

    --------

    More coverage:

    Group packs heat during library protest | WTVR.com

    Gun supporters protest Richmond library rule with "open-carry" - NBC12.com - Richmond, VA News, Weather, Traffic & Sports

    Gun-rights group stages demonstration in the Richmond Public Library | Richmond Times-Dispatch
    Μολὼν λαβέ

    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

  7. #6
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Sounds like it was a great event! Kudos to all who organized and participated. Thanks, VCDL.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  8. #7
    Member Array Lindy1933's Avatar
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    Braavo! Bravo! Good show all around.
    Retired AF pilot, Vietnam FAC 1967-68

  9. #8
    Member Array Glhadiator's Avatar
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    Keep up the good work. The value of this type of protest cannot be over-stated. If there were any way I could have been there to support your cause I would have! Nebraska is just too far away tho'.

    Serve my country, swear an oath to protect it, pay my taxes, fly old glory in the front yard, love and protect my family, honor the vets before me and help fellow americans in need.
    By definition my country now calls me a radical

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    The event apparently went well! Congratulations! Ya'll are good examples of OC education!

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    Surprise, surprise

    Letters to the Editor | Richmond Times-Dispatch

    **
    Guns don't belong at the library

    Editor, Times-Dispatch:


    Using the public library as a setting for a gun rights demonstration is abhorrent. The presence of guns at a public library is antithetical to its mission of education, self-improvement and civic betterment.

    SNIP

    Don't tread on me, and if you're wearing a gun, don't tread in my library either.

    John Morgan.
    Midlothian.
    Μολὼν λαβέ

    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

  12. #11
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by From the 'anti-gunner' responses to the Editor
    Using the public library as a setting for a gun rights demonstration is abhorrent. The presence of guns at a public library is antithetical to its mission of education, self-improvement and civic betterment.

    Don't tread on me, and if you're wearing a gun, don't tread in my library either.
    Reality check:

    • What should be abhorrent to any upstanding citizen is the presence of armed criminals anywhere in conjunction with unarmed potential victims ... which is pretty much the case anywhere unarmed citizens go.

    • The whole point of a "mission of education, self-improvement and civic betterment" is made in spades by upstanding citizens cho choose to be fully cognizant of the realities of this world, instead of going about blinded by the realities. What better place to do so than in a place of learning and opening of minds.

    • Upstanding citizens don't tread on anyone. It's only criminals who tread on us all. Going about our normal, everyday lives isn't "treading on" anyone: it's merely living, and opting not to become a victim in the process of doing so.

    • By the way, the public library is OUR library ... each and every one of us.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  13. #12
    Distinguished Member Array Toorop's Avatar
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    I don't see why they were protesting over how things were worded. Seemed silly to me and pointless as it was a non-issue. I've read on this forum where people try to play games with wording about off limits and carrying at work but nobody seems to be against that.

  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toorop View Post
    I don't see why they were protesting over how things were worded. Seemed silly to me and pointless as it was a non-issue. I've read on this forum where people try to play games with wording about off limits and carrying at work but nobody seems to be against that.
    Would you understand why someone might be upset and protest were the wording "Whites only, except as permitted by law"?

    The wording has a chilling effect on a constitutional right.

    Newspapers covering a similar protest of Roanoke County's "park
    ordinance" were confused by such language -- thinking firearms were banned and that is what we were protesting. The publicity from that event, earlier this summer, is probably the reason that the press didn't get it wrong this time.

    Some posting here were confused. See
    July 14th -- Oh, yes we can! picnic at a Roanoke County, VA

    Even LEOs responding to MWG call have been confused by such wording of their own jurisdictions.

    Were there a need to cite State law in order to enforce it locally, they would also have an an ordinance to the effect that, "Homicide is prohibited, except as permitted by law".

    There is no need for such wording -- unless it is to have a chilling effect (i.e., implied legal threats used toinhibition or discouragement of the legitimate exercise of a constitutional right.


    Μολὼν λαβέ

    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

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