Calling All Christians / Preachers

Calling All Christians / Preachers

This is a discussion on Calling All Christians / Preachers within the Member Meeting Place forums, part of the The Back Porch category; I would like to know how many preachers we have in this forum. I know there are several. By preachers I don't just mean pastors. ...

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Thread: Calling All Christians / Preachers

  1. #1
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    Calling All Christians / Preachers

    I would like to know how many preachers we have in this forum. I know there are several. By preachers I don't just mean pastors. I have served as a pastor in Louisiana and interim pastor in Alabama, but that is not my call. I currently am the worship leader at our small country church. I also preach when our pastor is out and will be preaching in the church I grew up in later this year. Unusual only in that I am no longer affiliated with the denomination of my youth. Our church will celebrate its 184th birthday on Thursday. I work at the library of a small Baptist woman's college in Alabama and even though my Th.D. is in church history I have never taught. I am a teacher, but have been given the task of teaching outside the classroom. I am a trained counsellor as well. My unique position at the college provides me with many opportunities to teach and witness.

    Since I have read several posts about concealing while in the pulpit, I wondered how many of us there are. One of the reasons I started carrying is that 1 Timothy 5:8 got to working on me. I decided that providing for my own included being able to protect them from harm to the best of my ability. I finally decided that if "I" did not carry I would be worse than an infidel. I don't say that this is true for all believers, but it is for me. So I went from one who had a pistol at home to one who has one on his hip and/or in his pocket during all waking hours.

    Please post and let me and other preachers know how you came to decide to carry.

    By the way this is not to exclude other Christians. I am particularly interested in the preachers because of the decision making process I went through.
    George

    Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe. Albert Einstein


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    Member Array Snowshoes's Avatar
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    "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one" Jesus in Luke 22:36
    "You have enemies ? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life" Winston Churchill

    "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forgo their use" Galileo Galilei

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    I'm not preacher or pastor, but am a Christian. I believe we need to be forgiving to our neighbors. But I also believe that Christ has charged us with protecting our neighbors and families "love one another as you love yourself". I would never shoot someone for breaking into my car, but if I think another person is in danger... Well, that's why I carry. I would have a hard time forgiving myself if I didn't help someone and I had the opportunity to do so.
    eschew obfuscation

    The only thing that stops bad guys with guns is good guys with guns. SgtD

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    I am not a preacher but, would just like to make a polite addition.

    The rules have changed in America post 9/11 & churches & synagogues are right up on top of terrorist hit lists as viable target buildings normally filled with passive males, women, & innocent children.

    It would be a very wise preacher that carries a bit of Hidden Thunder these days.

    Just my opinion on that.

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    Currently I am not a preacher, but I was assistant Pastor for three years specializing in counter occult ministry. I have my Bachelors in Theology (which means I will be making this much more complex than it needs to be, and by no means thorough). The root of my rationale for carrying a weapon comes primarily from the empirical nature of Sin; Sin being the willful desire to usurp that authority vested only in God.

    I see the need for self defence because of the idea that we live in the kingdom of heaven as "already, but not yet". If we lived completely in the "already" we would have no need for weapons because there would be no criminal. The "Not yet" says to me that there is a juxtoposition of the way things are and the way things should be. Look at Galatians 3:28. Paul says here that In Christ "there is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female", and yet he writes in Timothy 2:11 that a woman should "learn in quietness and full submission". This apparent contradicton shows how much current societal norms affect the practice (quietness and submission) even though the theory says there is no difference (between male and female). This again is evident in Philemon where Paul wishes Philemon to acknowledge Onesimus as a brother (theory) but also acknolwedges the practice of slavery in his day.

    As for defense, we are commanded to both love our neighbors and provide for our families. In the perfect world there will be no contradiction. Nowhere that I can find, does it say that the way to love your neighbor is to let them do whatever they want; in fact, love often entails discipline. In the world where the evidence of sin is all around us, we have to each personally decide which things are priorities (and we will answer for our own choices). If I have the choice of getting myself killed by my "Neighbor", or leaving my wife a widow, I know where my priorities lie.

    Finally back to the usurping of authority - If I am in the position of making a life or death decision regarding someone elses life, and the situation was unavoidable, then I have not willfully desired to usurp God's authority over life and death.

    I would also like to add that we have a responsibility to be good citizens. In our country we don't have a king who makes all the decisions, we are required to go to the polls and help in that process. I see this along with paying taxes, all as part of "rendering unto Caeser". Freedoms are a great responsibility, and a burden, that need to be exercised, all of them.

    The church is not a safe place. I carry because of an incident involving organized crime that uses the church as a base of operations.
    Live Free or Die

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    Thumbs up yoshi ~ Good Post...Interesting.

    Obviously we were either "given" or regardless "DO Possess" the normal ingrained instinct for Self~Preservation & "Fight or Flight" and we are also mentally patterned to guard/protect loved ones, family, our children.
    Obviously...the survival trait is present in our DNA/Genes for a reason or it would not be in there.
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

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    Thanks, guys. I am glad that I added that other Christians that preachers have replied. There are very good reasons to be armed today and several of these have been mentioned on our forum previously. There are also a number of biblical reasons to be armed and I am excited to see a number of these already mentioned.

    The one argument we often get against being armed is turning the other cheek. I personally see not contradiction there. If I understand the context correctly Jesus is talking about a slap of insult not a closed fist of physical attack. Therefore he is saying that if someone insults you verbally or physically with a slap do not return in kind, but rather accept it as an insult and go on your way. I have also seen the idea put forth that the slap was a challenge and that turning the other cheek was a refusal to accept the challenge. This makes sense as well, but neither one of the explanations is in anyway related to defending yourself, your family, or someone else from harm, so I reject it as an argument against being armed.

    In the scriptures when Jesus gives the parable of the good Samaritan there is an unusual juxtaposition of terms. The questioner asks Jesus who is my neighbor, but at the end of the parable Jesus asks the questioner who was neighbor unto him who fell among the thieves. Treating your neighbor as yourself does not exclude self-defense. Based on Christ's parable the neighbor would be someone who does good to those around him. If the person who lives down the street assaults your or a member of your family with intent to do harm he is not a neighbor - at least at that instant. In my case it would likely be his last instant and he would never get to be neighbor nor non-neighbor again.

    The scriptures constantly charge us to protect our family, widows and orphans, and to treat others in a neighborly manner, it also contains examples of where Israel was commanded to clean up the country and to destroy those who poluted it with violence and sin. I do not say that the church should become vigilantes and take justice into our own hands, but I do say that for me it would be a sin to sit around and do nothing when I have the ability to protect and defend myself, my family, and my neighbors. If I know to do good and then don't do it; it is sin for me. (James 4:17) It is also my conviction based on Romans 14:14 that I believe something is sinful then for me it is sinful. I believe that not to defend myself, my faimly, or my neighbors from someone attempting to do harm is sinful, therefore it would be a sin for me not to defend. Some would disagree and that is alright, because if I am wrong and it is a sin for me to defend I have already been forgiven of that. It would not be an intentional sin, nor would it be putting God to the test by intentionally sinning in order to be forgiven.

    I have said enough. I appreciate the responses so far and hope we will continue to see other responses.

    Thanks.
    George

    Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe. Albert Einstein

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    Member Array St Michael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dr_cmg
    I would like to know how many preachers we have in this forum. I know there are several. By preachers I don't just mean pastors.

    One of the reasons I started carrying is that 1 Timothy 5:8 got to working on me. I decided that providing for my own included being able to protect them from harm to the best of my ability. I finally decided that if "I" did not carry I would be worse than an infidel.

    Please post and let me and other preachers know how you came to decide to carry.

    By the way this is not to exclude other Christians. I am particularly interested in the preachers because of the decision making process I went through.
    I am not a "preacher" but I will be ordained in the future as either a deacon or a priest. Our Catechism is crystal clear on the demand of self preservation:

    Legitimate defense

    2263 The legitimate defense of persons and societies is not an exception to the prohibition against the murder of the innocent that constitutes intentional killing. "The act of self-defense can have a double effect: the preservation of one's own life; and the killing of the aggressor. . . . The one is intended, the other is not."65

    2264 Love toward oneself remains a fundamental principle of morality. Therefore it is legitimate to insist on respect for one's own right to life. Someone who defends his life is not guilty of murder even if he is forced to deal his aggressor a lethal blow:


    If a man in self-defense uses more than necessary violence, it will be unlawful: whereas if he repels force with moderation, his defense will be lawful. . . . Nor is it necessary for salvation that a man omit the act of moderate self-defense to avoid killing the other man, since one is bound to take more care of one's own life than of another's.66
    2265 Legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for one who is responsible for the lives of others. The defense of the common good requires that an unjust aggressor be rendered unable to cause harm. For this reason, those who legitimately hold authority also have the right to use arms to repel aggressors against the civil community entrusted to their responsibility.

    2266 The efforts of the state to curb the spread of behavior harmful to people's rights and to the basic rules of civil society correspond to the requirement of safeguarding the common good. Legitimate public authority has the right and duty to inflict punishment proportionate to the gravity of the offense. Punishment has the primary aim of redressing the disorder introduced by the offense. When it is willingly accepted by the guilty party, it assumes the value of expiation. Punishment then, in addition to defending public order and protecting people's safety, has a medicinal purpose: as far as possible, it must contribute to the correction of the guilty party.67

    2267 Assuming that the guilty party's identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.
    (Just a note of explanation: I am a married Byzantine Catholic. Eastern Catholics do have a married priesthood in many countries, and my own pastor is married.)

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by St Michael
    (Just a note of explanation: I am a married Byzantine Catholic. Eastern Catholics do have a married priesthood in many countries, and my own pastor is married.)
    Michael, I don't know, but I may be the only one on the forum besides you that knew that. Being a church history major and theology minor means you read lots of things no one else does. Of course so does being a knowledge sponge, a collector of trivia and other useless information, and a person who is almost always reading something (cereal boxes, telephone books, dictionaries, etc.). I can sometimes tell you where I found the information, but not often. I do not know where I got the info about Eastern Catholics having a married priesthood, but I have known it for at least 20 years.

    Thanks for the response and for the quotes. It is good to know that some churches have thought about this and made wise informed decisions about it.
    George

    Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe. Albert Einstein

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    Talking

    And they said "Lord, behold, here are two swords" And he said unto them, "It is enough"

    Luke 22:38
    "You have enemies ? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life" Winston Churchill

    "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forgo their use" Galileo Galilei

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    I follow no religion but am still a man of many values.

    I therefore see the innate right of any and every person to have the means of protection of self and loved ones, anywhere and that includes any house of any God.

    Turn that around and I say that I cannot see that any other has any right to be able to attempt the taking of another's life, without accepting the consequences of such action, which may well be the instigation of their own demize. Time and place is inconsequential.

    Not trying to butt in - but just giving another brief viewpoint.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

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    Senior Member Array czman2006's Avatar
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    Jesus did say turn the other cheek but He never said stand there and get your butt kicked.
    "Let not your heart be troubled." John 14:1

    USN Retired Vietnam/Desert Shield/Desert Storm

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    Member Array St Michael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dr_cmg
    Michael, I don't know, but I may be the only one on the forum besides you that knew that. Being a church history major and theology minor means you read lots of things no one else does. Of course so does being a knowledge sponge, a collector of trivia and other useless information, and a person who is almost always reading something (cereal boxes, telephone books, dictionaries, etc.). I can sometimes tell you where I found the information, but not often. I do not know where I got the info about Eastern Catholics having a married priesthood, but I have known it for at least 20 years.

    Thanks for the response and for the quotes. It is good to know that some churches have thought about this and made wise informed decisions about it.
    LOL! I'm the same way. I spent a little time outside the Catholic church, seeking and learning, so I know a bit about all the various denominations.

    Jack of all trades, master of none, I guess ;-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by czman2006
    Jesus did say turn the other cheek but He never said stand there and get your butt kicked.
    My preaching professor at seminary told an interesting story. Evidently he was sort of wild in high school and then during his college years he got saved. From college he went immediately to seminary. At the end of his first semester he went back to his home town in Mississipp for Christmas. An aquaintance from his high school day whom he had not seen since HS had heard about the change in my professor's life and that he was in seminary. When they met the HS aquaintance asked if it was true that Christian were supposed to turn the other cheek. My professor told him yes. The guy slapped him on the left cheek and the prof turned his head so the right cheek was facing the guy. The guy then slapped the right cheek and raised his hand to hit the prof on the left cheek again. When he did that the prof knocked him out. When the guy was able to think clearly again he said, "I thought you were supposed to turn the other cheek." The prof said, "Yeah, but I've only got two cheeks."

    He was willing to give him two cheeks, but not willing to be abused. After I heard that story I sort of accepted that as a standard for me too.
    George

    Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe. Albert Einstein

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    Quote Originally Posted by czman2006
    Jesus did say turn the other cheek but He never said stand there and get your butt kicked.
    LOL! I agree! Or do nothing and let your family be abused, tortured, raped, or killed.

    I can give you one reason to go armed:

    Luke 22:36 - Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    This is Jesus speaking to disciples. What was emphasized the most?

    I'm just going to add this: This is one of my favorite discussions. I can give a boat load of justification from Luke alone to be armed, not to mention the excellent corporate defense described in detail in Nehemiah.

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