I would really like to send these people to Afghanistan, without any aid or support

This is a discussion on I would really like to send these people to Afghanistan, without any aid or support within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Head Strong: Free (and hateful) speech vs. the right to gather Justices should rule against a Kansas church group that protested at a fallen Marine's ...

Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: I would really like to send these people to Afghanistan, without any aid or support

  1. #1
    Senior Moderator
    Array pgrass101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    13,475

    I would really like to send these people to Afghanistan, without any aid or support

    Head Strong: Free (and hateful) speech vs. the right to gather
    Justices should rule against a Kansas church group that protested at a fallen Marine's funeral.
    By Michael Smerconish - Inquirer

    Inquirer Currents Columnist

    Fred Phelps, founder and pastor of the Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka, Kan., claims to be a man of God. But when I interviewed him days after he initiated a vulgar protest at a dead Marine's funeral, he reminded me more of Lucifer.
    America, he insisted, had "gone the way of the Brokeback Mountain," before adding: "God's wrath is upon this nation. And he's pouring out that wrath by killing these soldiers and maiming these soldiers in Iraq and sending them back in body bags. And it's only going to get worse." Though we "met" by way of a cable television connection, I remember how disturbed his fiery eyes left me.

    Phelps was belligerent to the point that I had to cut off the interview just moments after it started. Now I hope the Supreme Court will do likewise.

    The case the high court has agreed to hear pertains to Marine Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder, who died in combat in Iraq on March 3, 2006. Joining his family, friends, and loved ones at his funeral a week later were Phelps and several protesters from Westboro Baptist. According to a lower court's recounting of the facts: "They traveled to Matthew Snyder's funeral in order to publicize their message of God's hatred of America for its tolerance of homosexuality."

    Unfortunately, their signage reflected that perverse ideology: "God Hates the USA/Thank God for 9/11," "Pope in Hell," "America Is Doomed," "*** Troops," "You're Going to Hell," "God Hates You," "Semper Fi Fags," "Thank God for IEDs," and "Thank God for Dead Soldiers."

    Following that debacle, Snyder's father, Albert, sued Phelps and some of his parishioners, initially winning a $10-million-plus award. That sum was reduced by a district judge and eventually, last September, thrown out by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit.

    "As utterly distasteful as these signs are," Judge Robert King wrote in the court's opinion, "they involve matters of public concern, including the issue of homosexuals in the military, the sex-abuse scandal within the Catholic Church, and the political and moral conduct of the United States and its citizens." They are protected by the First Amendment, the court concluded, because they didn't assert "objectively verifiable facts" that specifically apply to Matthew or Albert Snyder.

    It remains to be seen whether those sentiments will carry when the Supreme Court hears the case during its next session, which begins in October.

    The lawyer in me hopes the court restricts Westboro's free-speech rights in the same way it has in the past with regards to defamation, obscenity, and so-called fighting words. It's a crime to yell "Fire!" in the theater. It should be one to yell "***" at a fallen soldier's funeral as well.

    That said, the extent to which we afford freedom of speech to funeral crashers is hardly the most important element of the Snyder case.

    The First Amendment reads in full: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

    But by picketing Lance Cpl. Snyder's funeral, didn't Westboro Baptist infringe upon family members' First Amendment right to freely exercise their religion? Which on March 10, 2006, took the form of a burial service at St. John's Catholic Church in Westminster, Md.

    And because the Westboro demonstrators weren't protesting on a street corner or in a public park, it could also follow that they infringed upon the Snyders' right to peaceably assemble for that private funeral.

    The point is that while Phelps and his flock may believe they have a constitutionally protected right to protest at a funeral, that right should not come at the expense of the Snyders' right to peaceably gather at a Catholic funeral. Especially when that practice involved mourning the death of an American hero.

    "When the Fourth Circuit decided in favor of Phelps against Mr. Snyder, implicitly they decided that Mr. Phelps' rights were more important than Mr. Snyder's rights," Sean Summers, the York, Pa., lawyer representing the Snyder family, told me in a phone conversation last week. That should not stand.

    If it does, perhaps the best we can ask for is the continued vigilance of the Patriot Guard Riders. They're a national coalition of motorcycle enthusiasts who formed specifically to provide a physical buffer between mourning military families and pickets from Westboro Baptist.

    Members of the Patriot Guard were there March 10, 2006, when Matthew Snyder was buried, as they have been for hundreds of other funerals across the country. "We have one thing in common besides motorcycles," their mission statement reads. "We have an unwavering respect for those who risk their very lives for America's freedom and security."

    Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder fought and died for that freedom. In this case, the Supreme Court should deny its fruits to Fred Phelps and Westboro Baptist Church.
    “You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”

    ― Robert A. Heinlein,

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    evo
    evo is offline
    Member Array evo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    169
    This is just so disrespectful. A Christian unworthy. Shame on them.
    Benjamin Franklin: "They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security."

  4. #3
    Senior Moderator
    Array MattInFla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    4,857
    As much as I despise, loathe and hold in utter contempt the Westboro Baptist Church, it's inbred parishioners and their utterly psychotic goat molesting "Reverend", their protests are constitutionally protected speech.

    So is mine as an active PGR member, and I make darn sure I go exercise mine whenever the WBC slithers into Florida to spread their message of hate.

    As much as I loathe the WBC, I don't want to see the Constitution trampled on. We can, have, and will neutralize the WBC through patriotic assembly and speech of our own.

    Matt
    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
    Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.

  5. #4
    Distinguished Member Array GunGeezer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,249
    Unfortunately, sometimes we have to take the good with the bad. By embracing the 1st Amendment we must also allow people the right to express their opinions no matter how vehemently we disagree with them. To do otherwise opens a door that would eventually allow an individual or even a government to decide what opinions could be expressed and which cannot be allowed. That being said, I would have liked to see those mean spirited, @#&*@#$&'s arrested for disturbing the peace or unlawful assembly. Even if the charge didn't stick, it would have gotten them away from the funeral.

  6. #5
    Senior Moderator
    Array pgrass101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    13,475
    The point that will be argued in the SCOTUS is
    The First Amendment reads in full: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

    But by picketing Lance Cpl. Snyder's funeral, didn't Westboro Baptist infringe upon family members' First Amendment right to freely exercise their religion? Which on March 10, 2006, took the form of a burial service at St. John's Catholic Church in Westminster, Md.

    And because the Westboro demonstrators weren't protesting on a street corner or in a public park, it could also follow that they infringed upon the Snyders' right to peaceably assemble for that private funeral.
    Or that your rights stop were mine start

    PS Thank God for the PGR and all memebers of the US Military
    “You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”

    ― Robert A. Heinlein,

  7. #6
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    1,974
    Absolutely no respect for the fallen. People like that sicken me. I believe in forgiveness but the person must want to be forgiven. Since these people don't they can rott in ****
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

  8. #7
    Distinguished Member Array GWRedDragon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Arlington, VA
    Posts
    1,413
    Quote Originally Posted by MattInFla View Post
    As much as I despise, loathe and hold in utter contempt the Westboro Baptist Church, it's inbred parishioners and their utterly psychotic goat molesting "Reverend", their protests are constitutionally protected speech.


    Free speech isn't just for non-idiots; it's for everyone.

    Now, what I want to know is...was the funeral held on private property? If so, why wouldn't the owner ask the protesters to leave?
    "Trust in God with hand on sword" -Inscription on my family's coat of arms from medieval England
    ---Carry options: G26/MTAC, PF9/MiniTuck, PPK/Pocket, USP40/OWB---
    ---NOTE: I am not an expert. If I ever start acting like a know-it-all, please call me on it immediately. ---

  9. #8
    Distinguished Member Array BlueNinjaGo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,226
    Quote Originally Posted by GWRedDragon View Post
    Now, what I want to know is...was the funeral held on private property? If so, why wouldn't the owner ask the protesters to leave?
    This is what I would like to know as well.

  10. #9
    Distinguished Member Array jumpwing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    1,271
    I think the PGR needs to task a few of its members as a "plain clothes" tear gas squad.
    "The flock sleep peaceably in their pasture at night because Sheepdogs stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
    cafepress.com/bgstudios

  11. #10
    Distinguished Member Array kapnketel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Northern Kentucky
    Posts
    1,709
    From what I understand is that Phelps and his group gather along public roads, highways to avoid the trespass charges. I know many PGRs, they do a great service in not only shielding the families of these heroes from the likes of Phelps but also do a great serve in reminding the families how the public really feels about their loved one's sacrafice. My hat's off to the PGR.

  12. #11
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    1,974
    Quote Originally Posted by kapnketel View Post
    From what I understand is that Phelps and his group gather along public roads, highways to avoid the trespass charges.
    don't "let Jesus take the wheel" he might run em over
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

  13. #12
    Senior Member Array Divebum47's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    763
    Phelps is not a Christian, regardless of what he claims to be - at least in my world he's not. No more than Pat Robertson.
    "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups"

  14. #13
    Member Array TheFreeman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    North Carolina - Concord
    Posts
    161
    That is just sad.
    One of the most dangerous political philosophies afflicting America today is the belief that we can’t allow anyone to suffer the natural consequences of their own stupidity.

  15. #14
    Senior Member Array mojust's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Willimantic Connecticut
    Posts
    624
    This guy is unbelievable. In one situation, Viet Nam veteran bikers sealed off the funeral from these idiots. He belongs in jail: then he could lecture the inmates on homosexuality and see how long he lives.
    Sig 226, 228. Glock 19, 23. Smith Model 60,and 1911. XD45 Tactical. Mossberg 930 SPX.

    How we behave as gun owners is important. Posturing and threatening does not serve us well in the public eye.

  16. #15
    Moderator
    Array RETSUPT99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    44,644
    Quote Originally Posted by mojust View Post
    This guy is unbelievable. In one situation, Viet Nam veteran bikers sealed off the funeral from these idiots. He belongs in jail: then he could lecture the inmates on homosexuality and see how long he lives.
    Yep, it prison he could give the prisoners his 'input', and then they can give him 'theirs'...
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

    ***********************************
    Certified Glock Armorer
    NRA Life Member[/B]

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Support Taco Cabana, they support our CHL effort.
    By kd5tms in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: November 28th, 2009, 02:18 PM
  2. Today - montana people support this action ! Hb228 self defense bill
    By DOGOFWAR01 in forum The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: February 10th, 2009, 03:29 PM
  3. Send 'em up...
    By PackerBackerToo in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: December 13th, 2008, 09:10 PM
  4. Who else should I send my C&R?
    By Wayne in forum General Firearm Discussion
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: August 22nd, 2006, 07:08 PM
  5. Send a GI a G2 Challenge!!
    By JustinM in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: October 10th, 2005, 03:15 PM