Shooting "victims" family wants CWP shooter charged

Shooting "victims" family wants CWP shooter charged

This is a discussion on Shooting "victims" family wants CWP shooter charged within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; I don't think I would have intervened in this situation. I would have just called the cops. Regardless, it seemed like the good guy gave ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array LunarEclipse's Avatar
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    Shooting "victims" family wants CWP shooter charged

    I don't think I would have intervened in this situation. I would have just called the cops. Regardless, it seemed like the good guy gave the bad guy more than sufficient warning after said BG said he was going to kill him.

    Even the Tampa police agree that it was a clean self defense scenario, but now the "victims" family is claiming it was murder and the investigation has been forwarded to the state attorneys office.


    Girlfriend of Ybor City shooting victim angry with police | abcactionnews.com

    Girlfriend of Ybor City shooting victim angry with police
    Reported by: Jeff Butera
    Email: jbutera@wfts.com
    Last Update: 3/24 5:12 pm
    TPD will investigate a murder that officers call self defense


    TAMPA, FL -- It was very difficult to understand Kelly Vang as she spoke on Tuesday afternoon outside of the Tampa Police Department.

    Vang was clearly upset. As she tried to explain her anger, her words were camouflaged by shrieks and wails. But a few sentences were clear enough to be understood.

    "He murdered my (boyfriend), point-blank, in the chest!" she said. "He shot him to death."

    Vang's boyfriend is Eduardo Castillo. Tampa Police say Willie Jones shot and killed Castillo on Saturday night in Ybor City.

    Vang, flanked by Castillo's brother and cousin, stormed Tampa Police headquarters Tuesday afternoon, demanding to know why Jones is not facing charges.

    But while Vang is convinced that her boyfriend was murdered, Tampa Police disagree.

    According to police spokesperson Andrea Davis, Castillo was arguing with and hitting Vang Saturday night. Davis said Jones saw what was happening and intervened.

    When Jones intervened, Castillo threatened to kill him, Davis said. Jones told Castillo that he holds a concealed weapons permit and was armed.

    According to Davis, Castillo continued to threaten Jones' life. So Jones fired at Castillo, hitting him in the chest. Castillo died from his wounds.

    Tampa Police believe Jones acted in self-defense. They say they have witnesses who have corroborated Jones' story.

    They plan to forward their investigation to the state attorney's office. The state attorney will determine whether Jones committed a crime or if he acted in self-defense.

    The Castillo family does not believe Jones acted in self-defense.

    "He's no hero to shoot my baby to death," Vang said. "And he's walking free!"


  2. #2
    Member Array Benthic's Avatar
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    Hmmm...I was under the impression that if the police determined it was in fact self defense, that was the end of it. It will be interesting to hear what the State's Attorney has to say about it.

    Brian

  3. #3
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    It has always bothered me how some people just want to save someone else. Everybody is capable of being a bad guy at one time or another. The question is how bad are they at that moment. Now in my opinion if the only reason you are willing to get involved in someones else's business is because you have a gun then you should not get involved. Did Castillo have to die, NO. Was he a bad person, I don't know but what I do know is a CWP jumped into the middle of a situation and put himself in harms way and possibly caused the death of a person that might not of had to die. Was it self defense, technically yes but did it have to happen is the big question. This would of been the perfect situation for pepper spray.

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    A normal occurrence this is.
    Especially so in cases of domestic abuse.

    IF a person in their own mind makes the choice to carry AND they also choose to apply their lawful self-protection umbrella to that of another (strangers!) THEN said person needs to know and understand that they put themself at additional very real risk being a 'hero', risk that will very likely put their own life on the line as well as not be appreciated nor even _wanted_ as by the person rescued.

    Not every woman laid hands upon deems such action as being inappropriate or even uncomfortable.
    People walking around planet earth carrying guns need to know and realize this as being a fact.
    What you see as by view is not at all always congruent to the view of the person(s) view who is to your own view the 'victim'.

    In a case like this I'd have simply called the cops.
    Not even cops want to get involved in domestic abuse cases...Nevermind that men (and women too, but that is different) who in their won mind cross that seemingly universal line that they by loss of emotional control and/or sense of entitlement go to the point of hitting a woman will think _nothing_ of doing same toward any and all persons who attempt to intervene.
    To their view being the person who intervenes as in front of the female he is attempting to intimidate/chastise is nothing more than showing him disrespect AND it decreases his perceived strength/dominance as to the person he is trying to intimidate. By that persons (and common) thought the only valid response is to maintain steam pressure only to turn it toward you the person(s) trying to intervene...Even if you happen to wear blue and sport a badge.

    This is human behavior 101 stuff.

    Do not never ever take a domestic abuse situation in specific with anything less than very serious thought and mental fore planning.
    Planning as in the immediate _before_ you open your mouth and step forward to do what ever it is you might feel you may need to do.

    Call the cops first no matter what and report it as being ongoing in the immediate.
    As to verbal threats of I'm gonna kill you man and other such claims; If the threat has no immediate means to do so (weapon of some sort)AND I can choose to retreat...I will choose retreat even if state law allows me to shoot by verbal threat alone.

    Retreat is infinitely less complicated and expensive to deal with than that of a grand jury investigation for murder.

    $0.02

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  5. #5
    Senior Member Array joleary223's Avatar
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    Not enough info in that article to make a decision. Was there was another weapon, some justification to believe that the victim could actually kill the shooter not just idle words? Did the shooter believe the woman was in mortal danger? ect...


    I'm not going to judge the guy because, there is more to this story.....
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  6. #6
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benthic View Post
    Hmmm...I was under the impression that if the police determined it was in fact self defense, that was the end of it. It will be interesting to hear what the State's Attorney has to say about it.
    Nope.

    Police are just one arm of law enforcement, as at the street in the immediate.
    The judicial arm at the county and state level are law enforcement too; With power to arrest, charge and unlike police they may and do prosecute too.

    This applys not just to criminal cases but to civil cases & charges too.
    I myself have had a man charged with a crime and _arrested_ with his civil rights removed as result of a civil case I took to court myself (self represented...no attorney) among small claims court as at a civil level.

    People should know and understand that just because no cop responded does not deem you in the clear.
    Also just because the cop who did respond did not choose to arrest does not waive you from future arrest either.

    The judicial branch charges a person, not the police.
    The police take you before a judge, upon arrest, to be charged thereafter at their advisory...Or without.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by joleary223 View Post
    Not enough info in that article to make a decision. Was there was another weapon, some justification to believe that the victim could actually kill the shooter not just idle words? Did the shooter believe the woman was in mortal danger? ect...


    I'm not going to judge the guy because, there is more to this story.....
    I was wondering the same thing, was it just a threat, or did the guy attack the shooter?

  8. #8
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    Domestic disputes way out-of-bounds for me. They just get too crazy. I hear all the time about cops getting attacked by the wife/girlfriend after they pull the aggressor off of them.

    I've had to condition myself to ignore my nutty neighbors. My heart breaks for their kids, but it's a suicide mission to wade into that stuff.
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  9. #9
    Member Array KralBlbec's Avatar
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    I have as much pity for wife-beaters as I do child-molesters. I don't care if you are a saint to everyone else. A little more for women who accept it and defend it.

  10. #10
    Distinguished Member Array BlueNinjaGo's Avatar
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    I would ask the lady if she's ok. If she says she's not, or asks for help, then I'll do what I can to make sure he doesn't keep beating her. If she tells me to **** off and mind my own business, then I'll have no problem walking away and letting her take a beating.

    Regardless, I'm not inclined to step in and help anyone who isn't trying to get away.

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    BNG,

    Even doing that asking would be active interjection by view of the threat.
    Regardless of what the woman/child/victim would have to say you now would draw fire from the threat....And now it's on.

    Again as before making move one folk gotta think this stuff through.
    If you have to ask if a person is 'okay' then that right there is a sign that they quite possibly might not be okay...And as such call the po-po and have them come to ask questions and figure stuff out.

    Or expose your neck to great and very real risk.

    As to shoot or no shoot conditions including threat verbalization, folk would do well to read, study and memorize this; http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...ard-times.html

    A dog who barks is not necessarily intent to act with a bite.
    While a dog who bites may not bark warnings prior to acting.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  12. #12
    jbs
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    I would have called 911 and let them handle it, but, in Florida if the grand jury deems it self defense, the shooter is protected from suit. There is no way from the article we can tell if this was a legitimate self defense other than the threat of death, which might have been enough depending on if other weapons were involved or disparity of size/aggressive action/movement towards the shooter.

    I'm sure there is much more to this story.
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  13. #13
    Distinguished Member Array BlueNinjaGo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    If you have to ask if a person is 'okay' then that right there is a sign that they quite possibly might not be okay...And as such call the po-po and have them come to ask questions and figure stuff out.
    I meant if I saw her being hit, then I would do something. If they are simply in a verbal dispute, then there's no way I'm going to do anything.

    But if he starts hitting her, calling the police isn't going to do that much. Yes, calling the police is a good idea, but how long til they get there?

    How long do you think it took Chris Brown to do this to Rihanna?




    By no means do I want to get involved in a domestic dispute (or any dispute) but as a brother, father, and son, I can't stand there and watch a woman get beat down by a man.

  14. #14
    Member Array snip's Avatar
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    assuming it was a clear SD shooting it is possible for the police to say they did something by bring the cast before a judge then the judge ruling that there is a lack of evidence for a crime and dismissing the case which is actually a good thing as the shooting can then never come back to haunt you as double jeopardy has set in.

  15. #15
    Distinguished Member Array Rugergirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    A normal occurrence this is.
    Especially so in cases of domestic abuse.

    IF a person in their own mind makes the choice to carry AND they also choose to apply their lawful self-protection umbrella to that of another (strangers!) THEN said person needs to know and understand that they put themself at additional very real risk being a 'hero', risk that will very likely put their own life on the line as well as not be appreciated nor even _wanted_ as by the person rescued.

    Not every woman laid hands upon deems such action as being inappropriate or even uncomfortable.
    People walking around planet earth carrying guns need to know and realize this as being a fact.
    What you see as by view is not at all always congruent to the view of the person(s) view who is to your own view the 'victim'.

    In a case like this I'd have simply called the cops.
    Not even cops want to get involved in domestic abuse cases...Nevermind that men (and women too, but that is different) who in their won mind cross that seemingly universal line that they by loss of emotional control and/or sense of entitlement go to the point of hitting a woman will think _nothing_ of doing same toward any and all persons who attempt to intervene.
    To their view being the person who intervenes as in front of the female he is attempting to intimidate/chastise is nothing more than showing him disrespect AND it decreases his perceived strength/dominance as to the person he is trying to intimidate. By that persons (and common) thought the only valid response is to maintain steam pressure only to turn it toward you the person(s) trying to intervene...Even if you happen to wear blue and sport a badge.

    This is human behavior 101 stuff.

    Do not never ever take a domestic abuse situation in specific with anything less than very serious thought and mental fore planning.
    Planning as in the immediate _before_ you open your mouth and step forward to do what ever it is you might feel you may need to do.

    Call the cops first no matter what and report it as being ongoing in the immediate.
    As to verbal threats of I'm gonna kill you man and other such claims; If the threat has no immediate means to do so (weapon of some sort)AND I can choose to retreat...I will choose retreat even if state law allows me to shoot by verbal threat alone.


    Retreat is infinitely less complicated and expensive to deal with than that of a grand jury investigation for murder.

    $0.02

    - Janq
    The State of Michigan gave me a permit, they haven't issued a badge, sorry I'm not getting into the middle of a domestic situation I know nothing about.
    I will make the 911 call, observe and report, until they arrive.
    Disclaimer: The posts made by this member are only the members opinion, not a reflection on anyone else, nor the group, and should not be cause for anyone to get their undergarments wedged in an uncomfortable position.

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