Police accidently hit toddler while shooting bank robber

This is a discussion on Police accidently hit toddler while shooting bank robber within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Wow... I grew up in Jacksonville. The area this happened in used to be one of the nicer safe areas in town. Not knowing all ...

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Thread: Police accidently hit toddler while shooting bank robber

  1. #31
    Member Array BigFish's Avatar
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    Wow... I grew up in Jacksonville. The area this happened in used to be one of the nicer safe areas in town.

    Not knowing all the facts I don't blame the officers for the shooting. If they saw the kid and shot anyway then I'd feel differently, but it sounds like they did the best they could under the circumstances.

    I have to say though, I'm quite glad I'm out of Jacksonville. I just went back last Thanksgiving for the first time in nearly 10 years. All I have to say is wow... what a dump.

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  3. #32
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    I don't know all the facts, I will pray for all concerned here.
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  4. #33
    VIP Member Array cmdrdredd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StevePVB View Post
    I doubt if many of you live where the brilliant bank robbers "plan" their getaway by trying to find a car to carjack. What's that saying? Ya can't fix stupid.

    Lots of loose ends still in this story. None of the LEO involved have been interviewed. The local forums, no surprise, are focusing on 5 cops unloading 42 shots into the car plus 1 shotgun (that apparently didn't do much). No info yet on line of sight, kids and mother out of sight behind car seats, headrests, etc. Luckily the 2 year old is still hanging in there.
    You said it, the media is ignoring the fact that we don't know the situation and what the officers saw on the scene. We are reading media reports and going by the same little to no information or even misinformation as I've seen before.
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  5. #34
    VIP Member Array cmdrdredd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holger View Post
    Innocent are alive by sheer luck. There is no way to know had the officers withheld fire that something "worse" would've happened. What if the kid was killed? Would we still say "oh well, the BG would've killed him anyway so the cops did nothing wrong." Not likely.

    I'm glad everything worked out. Since it did, it's fairly easy to say the LEOs had no choice in the matter, they acted appropriately, yada yada yada. In my opinion, they did not. Firing as they did is akin to returning fire in a daycare. If you're not sure who you are going to shoot, don't shoot. The standard applies to citizens, and it should be applied in the same manner (if not higher!) for our professional LEOs.

    Again, if the toddler was shot in the head by a cop while getting caught up in a carjacking and killed, there is no way anyone should be saying "the cop acted appropriately." To say otherwise likely betrays internal biases.
    So you can move bullets with your mind? That's is the ONLY way to guarantee a perfect hit when you're moving, with a moving target, behind barriers, without direct line of sight. You know what you're aiming at, I dare you to be shot at or have a car driven at you and shoot the same as you do at the range. It just won't happen. I'm sorry, but you are not thinking realistically. I have no doubt the officers knew what they were aiming at. It's easy to shoot at paper in a closed environment, it's quite another to have seconds to react with adrenaline pumping through you and you being on the move.
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  6. #35
    Member Array Deuce130's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmdrdredd View Post
    So you can move bullets with your mind? That's is the ONLY way to guarantee a perfect hit when you're moving, with a moving target, behind barriers, without direct line of sight. You know what you're aiming at, I dare you to be shot at or have a car driven at you and shoot the same as you do at the range. It just won't happen. I'm sorry, but you are not thinking realistically. I have no doubt the officers knew what they were aiming at. It's easy to shoot at paper in a closed environment, it's quite another to have seconds to react with adrenaline pumping through you and you being on the move.
    I'm fairly certain Holger's point was that you shouldn't shoot unless you know what you're shooting at. Shooting at a BG surrounded by innocents doesn't relieve you of the responsibility to not hit them, regardless of your intentions. It's not their aim that's being questioned, it's their judgment.

  7. #36
    Senior Member Array ep1953's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bandolero View Post
    This is the third such incident, where a baby was brought along during the commission of a crime, that I have read about in the last 10 days or so.
    The way I read it the baby was in a carjack victim's car that was taken over by the criminal.

  8. #37
    Senior Member Array ep1953's Avatar
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    Any news on the little boy?

    I just found out he is the son of another pilot working for my employer. I don't know the other pilot as there are 2400 of us at the company, but it still hits close to home.

    The latest I can find on the internet is from April 1 and said he was still in critical but stable condition.

  9. #38
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    Would a two year old in a car seat even been visible from the officers vantage point?

    I haven't read every news account or every post here, but this sounds like one of those tragedies that will play hard on the minds of the officers. On first blush, I believe they did what they felt was the only option during the "heat of the moment."

    All of the arm chair quarterbacks always discounts the "heat of the moment" factor which is a real and often gut wrenching decision which must be made in the blink of an eye, and then you get forever to live with the consequences.

    Few people or occupations get to make those kinds of decisions and most people do not have a reference point to compare what making those decisions are like for those who do. But they are never short of an opinion on the matter.

    I hope the child makes a full recovery of their injuries. I hope the officers involved get what they need to recover emotionally.
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  10. #39
    Senior Member Array DIABLO9489's Avatar
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    "Jacksonville Sheriff's Office policy prohibits officers from firing at a moving vehicle other than as a last resort to prevent death or great bodily harm to the officer or another person; as a last resort to prevent escape of a felon who would pose imminent threat of death or great bodily harm and when authorized by a watch commander or higher authority."

    A very tragic story and incredibly tough spot to be in as the LEOs. It sounds as though they did follow their department policy as it is written. I hope i never find myself in the same situation
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  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIABLO9489 View Post
    "Jacksonville Sheriff's Office policy prohibits officers from firing at a moving vehicle other than as a last resort to prevent death or great bodily harm to the officer or another person; as a last resort to prevent escape of a felon who would pose imminent threat of death or great bodily harm and when authorized by a watch commander or higher authority."

    A very tragic story and incredibly tough spot to be in as the LEOs. It sounds as though they did follow their department policy as it is written. I hope i never find myself in the same situation
    I would say that policy is not uncommon in most department SOP's

    Someone is still making that split second decision during the heat of the moment whether or not the fleeing felon posed an immanent threat to either other officers, them self, or other innocent parties at large or in the immediate area.

    And they are going to have to live with that decision in the aftermath of a lot of monday morning quarterbacking.

    And I agree... at first blush, it seems they were within policy.
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  12. #41
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    At least a little good news

    The 2 year old boy is improving and has been upgraded to fair condition.

  13. #42
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    good news on the boy, I pray he continues to improve and they all recover

    that would be a horrible situation and one I fear to encounter on the job, and pray I never have to

    we don't have all the details on this story, but from the officer's perspective...I wouldn't allow an armed robber to carjack someone and not stop them, every situation has its intricacies and split second decisions are made
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