Ugly: AZ Rancher murdered

Ugly: AZ Rancher murdered

This is a discussion on Ugly: AZ Rancher murdered within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Cochise County Rancher Murdered | The Range: The Tucson Weekly's Old Pueblog | Tucson Weekly Likely drug or human traffickers. At least DHS is all ...

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Thread: Ugly: AZ Rancher murdered

  1. #1
    Member Array Holger's Avatar
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    Ugly: AZ Rancher murdered

    Cochise County Rancher Murdered | The Range: The Tucson Weekly's Old Pueblog | Tucson Weekly

    Likely drug or human traffickers. At least DHS is all over this threat to our southern border. They're going out and tackling the well funded, well armed Mexican drug lords invading our country, not out picking the low hanging fruit of tiny and obscure militia groups in the upper midwest. Er, wait a sec....


  2. #2
    Senior Member Array TheGreatGonzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holger View Post
    At least DHS is all over this threat to our southern border. They're going out and tackling the well funded, well armed Mexican drug lords invading our country, not out picking the low hanging fruit of tiny and obscure militia groups in the upper midwest. Er, wait a sec....
    Hey...sarcasm. Errrr...I mean a "straw man". I get confused.

    Sorry, Holger, I could not resist.

    In truth, another sad story. Having lived and worked in West Texas, there is no doubt that the border is open and dangerous. Most ranchers I knew in West Texas were armed all the time. In fact, I can't remember running across any who were not. There is a fierce streak of "self protection and reliance" in West Texas ranchers, and I would imagine the same can be said of AZ ranchers as well. Just another reminder of how important it is to be armed and prepared whenever possible. The government cannot and will not take care of you. Drug smugglers and human smugglers run rampant back and forth across an invisible line. Unless and until the US gets serious about border security and allows the Border Patrol to do their job effectively, these sort of crimes will continue, unabated.
    Gonzo
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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    A coupla years ago I helped a farmer at the gun range sight in his red dot scope on his new Bushmaster AR15.He was seeing a huge increase in Illegals crossing his land and wasn't gonna be undergunned.
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
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    Senior Member Array TheGreatGonzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    A coupla years ago I helped a farmer at the gun range sight in his red dot scope on his new Bushmaster AR15.He was seeing a huge increase in Illegals crossing his land and wasn't gonna be undergunned.
    Good for him and good for you for helping him.
    Gonzo
    "Skin that smokewagon!".

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    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
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    Maybe I'm stretching a little here: why is this not an act of war? Citizens of another country incessantly murdering and kidnapping Americans?
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

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    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    They will ignore this problem just like they have in the past. They will never close the borders.

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    Senior Member Array Super Trucker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    They will ignore this problem just like they have in the past. They will never close the borders.

    True.

    I was looking into being a boarder patrol officer about 2 years ago until I found out at 37 I was to old to apply. That still makes me mad thinking about it.

    A person can be a cop and write speeding tickets until they are in their 50's, but god forbid a person want to help with problems at the boarder and already have gone through puberty.

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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    After what I heard happened to a female Mexican DA and her baby from a friend that gets Police updates on the violence in Mexico,I think they need to catch and hang every narcotic trafficker they find,and anybody caught transporting drugs into the US needs to be executed.
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

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    Senior Member Array usmc3169's Avatar
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    dukalmighty - agreed.
    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

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    Senior Member Array bps3040's Avatar
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    dukalmighty - I agree. We are having the same problem where I hunt in West Texas... by Dryden. We talk with the Border Patrol out there all the time and they warn us to be careful. They said it is getting bad...half the ranches out there are for sell because of the druggies..... they will shoot you instead of running like the illegals.
    Socialism: A great Idea...'til you run out of other people's money. Margaret Thatcher

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    I wish there were more details about the murder.

    It's a given that most ranchers on the border are armed these days. Arguably, adequately armed with hi-capacity, semi-automatic rifles with optics, etc. Some ranchers are even using night vision optics when patrolling their property.

    So my question is "What were the circumstances surrounding this incident?"

    Was the rancher in fact well armed at the time? Was he ambushed? Did he see anything to put him on alert or was he caught totally unaware?

    It's a scary situation for those who live and make their living on the border.

    You can be prepared... but if you are sniped, or caught unaware, that's a hell of a way to go out!

    It's a bad situation all around.

    And on the flip side of the coin, had the rancher been the one who shot and killed the bad guy, how quickly would he be exonerated? Or, would he be hounded and prosecuted by a justice system quick to appease the Mexican government?

    You guys who live on the border are fighting against a stacked deck. I do not envy you.

    Stay safe guys. Stay Alert. Stay Armed at all times!
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

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    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zacii View Post
    Maybe I'm stretching a little here: why is this not an act of war? Citizens of another country incessantly murdering and kidnapping Americans?
    In order for it to be an act of war, these drug smugglers would have to have official sanction from the Mexican government.

    "War" only exists between one nation's government and another. It's a legal term.

    We use terms like the "war" on terror, the "war" on drugs, crime, poverty, etc. It's really not a proper use of the word.

    In any case, it would be nice if we finally got serious about the border. If people cross the border at other than official crossing points, they are obviously up to illegal activity, and should be shot on sight. Period.
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
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    VIP Member Array cmdrdredd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    I wish there were more details about the murder.

    It's a given that most ranchers on the border are armed these days and arguably, adequately armed with hi-capacity, semi-automatic rifles with optics, etc.

    So my question is "what were the circumstances surrounding this case?"

    Was the rancher in fact well armed at the time? Was he ambushed? Did he see anything to put him on alert or was he caught totally unaware?

    It's a scary situation for those who live and make their living on the border.

    You can be prepared... but if you are sniped, or caught unaware, that's a hell of a way to go out!

    It's a bad situation all around.

    And on the flip side of the coin, had the rancher been the one who shot and killed the bad guy, how quickly would he be exonerated? Or, would he be hounded and prosecuted by a justice system quick to appease the Mexican government?

    You guys who live on the border are fighting against a stacked deck. I do not envy you.

    Stay safe guys. Stay Alert. Stay Armed at all times!
    From what I read about him he always went to help illegals. He brought them food and water while waiting for the authorities to pick them up. He didn't want them to die, he was at the very least a humanitarian. He did radio his brother that he was going to check on someone crossing through his land before the incident.

    I am quite frankly shocked by the lack of nerve this government has. They MUST act, and act quickly. If not, the border towns will descend into a war zone. Unfortunately for those who give a damn about protecting out borders, they are demonized for doing their job. Border agents firing upon illegals who threaten their lives (attempting to run them over with a truck for example) are tried as criminals. They are doing a job and the job calls for lethal action if lethal action is brought against them. The sheriff departments in Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas are taxed to the brim with attempting to round up illegals. We all know they bring drugs, prostitution, and all manner of violence in their wake. Don't try to deny it and be an apologist and bleeding heart. You know that most of southern california's jails are filled with illegals who committed violent crimes against American Citizens. Every immegrant has the opportunity to go through the system, submit the documents to the government and apply for a visa. They choose to break our laws and come here without going through that process, hence they are illegals! The sad part about all this is, the private home owner and land owner will have to arm themselves heavily to combat these people. I guarantee you will see many people defending their property through violence due to the government's inaction.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
    -Thomas Jefferson

    Laws are restrictive but sometimes necessary to maintain a civil society. Rights are nonrestrictive but are always necessary to maintain a free society.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmdrdredd View Post
    From what I read about him he always went to help illegals. He brought them food and water while waiting for the authorities to pick them up. He didn't want them to die, he was at the very least a humanitarian. He did radio his brother that he was going to check on someone crossing through his land before the incident.

    I am quite frankly shocked by the lack of nerve this government has. They MUST act, and act quickly. If not, the border towns will descend into a war zone. Unfortunately for those who give a damn about protecting out borders, they are demonized for doing their job. Border agents firing upon illegals who threaten their lives (attempting to run them over with a truck for example) are tried as criminals. They are doing a job and the job calls for lethal action if lethal action is brought against them. The sheriff departments in Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas are taxed to the brim with attempting to round up illegals. We all know they bring drugs, prostitution, and all manner of violence in their wake. Don't try to deny it and be an apologist and bleeding heart. You know that most of southern california's jails are filled with illegals who committed violent crimes against American Citizens. Every immegrant has the opportunity to go through the system, submit the documents to the government and apply for a visa. They choose to break our laws and come here without going through that process, hence they are illegals! The sad part about all this is, the private home owner and land owner will have to arm themselves heavily to combat these people. I guarantee you will see many people defending their property through violence due to the government's inaction.
    I hear ya buddy. My nephew was a Border Patrol Agent in the Naco Az. sector for about 7 years. He's since transferred to a different Federal Agency. He was too worried about getting hung out to dry for doing his job if he ever had to shoot an illegal. Morale for the men and women on the ground down there sucks.

    They want to do their jobs, be helpful and compassionate, however they all feel if they are involved in a incident, management and the U.S Prosecutor will just offer them up as scapegoats to appease the Mexican government.

    Everyone is in a tough situation down there.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array cmdrdredd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    I hear ya buddy. My nephew was a Border Patrol Agent in the Naco Az. sector for about 7 years. He's since transferred to a different Federal Agency. He was too worried about getting hung out to dry for doing his job if he ever had to shoot an illegal. Morale for the men and women on the ground down there sucks.

    They want to do their jobs, be helpful and compassionate, however they all feel if they are involved in a incident, management and the U.S Prosecutor will just offer them up as scapegoats to appease the Mexican government.

    Everyone is in a tough situation down there.
    I have a solution but it requires some balls, something our current government is without.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
    -Thomas Jefferson

    Laws are restrictive but sometimes necessary to maintain a civil society. Rights are nonrestrictive but are always necessary to maintain a free society.

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