BAD: Home-grown terrorists arrested plotting attacks in USA (MI)

BAD: Home-grown terrorists arrested plotting attacks in USA (MI)

This is a discussion on BAD: Home-grown terrorists arrested plotting attacks in USA (MI) within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Recently, in an example of apparent pre-crime, crystal ball arrest, a man in Medford, Oregon, was taken down without warrant by police SWAT teams to ...

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Thread: BAD: Home-grown terrorists arrested plotting attacks in USA (MI)

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    BAD: Home-grown terrorists arrested plotting attacks in USA (MI)

    Recently, in an example of apparent pre-crime, crystal ball arrest, a man in Medford, Oregon, was taken down without warrant by police SWAT teams to face a 3hr psych review, after which he was released without charges. (ref. David Pyles arrest.)

    By comparison, here's a situation in which everything appears very well researched. Waiting until actual crimes of conspiracy had apparently been committed and armed with much supporting information about their actions, a small group of home-grown terroristi has been arrested in Michigan for plotting to spark an overthrow of the government.

    Their plans involved attack against police and government personnel, bombings and other actions. They have been charged with sedition and a host of conspiracy crimes.


    9 Tied to Militia Charged in Plot to Murder Officers


    By CHARLIE SAVAGE
    New York Times
    Published: March 29, 2010


    In court filings unsealed Monday, the Justice Department accused the nine people of planning to kill an unidentified law enforcement officer, then plant improvised explosive devices of a type used by insurgents in Iraq to attack the funeral procession.

    Eight of the defendants were arrested over the weekend in raids in Michigan, Ohio and Indiana. A ninth remained at large, the Justice Department said. The indictments against them were returned last Tuesday. The defendants were identified as members of Hutaree, described by federal prosecutors as an anti-government extremist organization based in Lenawee County, Mich., and which advocates violence against local, state and federal law enforcement. The group saw local and state police as “foot soldiers” for the federal government, which it viewed as its enemy, along with participants in what they deemed to be a “New World Order,” according to the indictment.

    “This is an example of radical and extremist fringe groups which can be found throughout our society,” Andrew Arena, an F.B.I. special agent in charge in Detroit, said in a statement. “The F.B.I. takes such extremist groups seriously, especially those who would target innocent citizens and the law enforcement officers who protect the citizens of the United States.”

    A law enforcement official said that the alleged plot was unconnected to recent threats against Democratic members of Congress who voted for legislation overhauling the nation’s health care system.

    A Web site for the Hutaree group talks about a coming battle against the putative forces of the Antichrist but does not appear to focus explicitly on recent political events.


    The Web site, which describes the group as “preparing for the end times,” featured video clips of people running through woods in camouflage gear and firing assault rifles, along with links to gun stores and far-right media. It also features an elaborate system of military ranks for its members. The site says it coined the term Hutaree, intended to mean Christian warrior.

    “Jesus wanted us to be ready to defend ourselves using the sword and stay alive using equipment,” the Web site says, adding, “The Hutaree will one day see its enemy and meet him on the battlefield if so God wills it.”

    The indictment charged that from August 2008 to the present, the defendants — led by David Brian Stone, 45, who also used the name “Captain Hutaree” — developed a conspiracy that they hoped would result in a war against the United States government. They allegedly decided they would kill a local law enforcement officer, and then bomb the funeral caravan. The killings “would intimidate and demoralize law enforcement diminishing their ranks and rendering them ineffective,” it said.

    Afterward, the indictment said, Hutaree members would retreat to several “rally points” and wage war against the government, using prepared fighting positions as well as “trip-wired and command-detonated” bombs.


    “It is believed by the Hutaree that this engagement would then serve as a catalyst for a more widespread uprising against the government,” the indictment said.

    Mr. Stone used the Internet to obtain diagrams of “explosively formed projectiles,” a particularly lethal form of roadside bombs responsible for many deaths of United States soldiers in Iraq, the indictment said.

    It says that he e-mailed diagrams of such devices to a person he believed to be capable of manufacturing them, and then directed one of his sons to obtain the materials to make them. It also says he and his other son taught other Hutaree members how to make bombs in June 2009.

    Barbara McQuade, the United States attorney for the Eastern District of Michigan, said the government moved to arrest the members of the group this past weekend to short-circuit some operation it had planned to do next month, and which she did not explain in detail.

    “Because the Hutaree had planned a covert reconnaissance operation for April which had the potential of placing an unsuspecting member of the public at risk, the safety of the public and of the law enforcement community demanded intervention at this time.”

    All nine people face the charges of seditious conspiracy, attempted use of a weapon of mass destruction and carrying a firearm during a crime of violence. In addition, Mr. Stone and one of his sons, David Brian Stone Jr., has been charged with teaching the use of explosive materials.


    The other seven people named in the indictment were Mr. Stone’s wife, Tina Stone, 44; his other son, Joshua Matthew Stone, 21, of Clayton, Michigan; Joshua Clough, 28, of Blissfield, Michigan; Michael Meeks, 40, of Manchester, Michigan; Thomas Piatek, 46, of Whiting, Indiana, Kristopher Sickles, 27, of Sandusky, Ohio; and Jacob Ward, 33, of Huron, Ohio.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Array mojust's Avatar
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    There were eight of them arrested: among them, 87 toes, eight brain cells, and strange ears.
    Sig 226, 228. Glock 19, 23. Smith Model 60,and 1911. XD45 Tactical. Mossberg 930 SPX.

    How we behave as gun owners is important. Posturing and threatening does not serve us well in the public eye.

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    VIP Member Array JAT40's Avatar
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    Sedition:
    Crime of creating a revolt, disturbance, or violence against lawful civil authority with the intent to cause its overthrow or destruction. Because it is limited to organizing and encouraging opposition to government rather than directly participating in its overthrow, sedition is regarded as falling one step short of the more serious crime of treason. In the U.S. the display of a certain flag or the advocacy of a particular movement, such as syndicalism, anarchism, or communism, has periodically been declared seditious. More recently, the courts have applied a more stringent test of sedition to ensure that constitutional guarantees regarding freedom of speech are not abridged.

    -----------------------

    I have a hard time buying the Govt. & lame stream medias take on this, I think more needs to be revealed. I've lost trust in both, hopefully truth and real justice will prevail.
    The way this event can be seen is, an over militarized police force picking the low hanging fruit on the liberty tree, causing a timely diversion from the socialization of America.
    Is it only a matter of time when waving the gadsden flag at a Tea Party rally will be labeled seditious? The question has to be asked, where are you on the tree of liberty? What point are you next for harvest?
    If in fact this group was conspiring to murder an officer they should be condemned and severely dealt with.
    While people are saying "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, ... and they will not escape. 1Th 5:3

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    Member Array endobong's Avatar
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    Thought police in action.
    Today we need a nation of Minute Men citizens who are not only
    prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of
    freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life. J.F.K.

  5. #5
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAT40 View Post
    I have a hard time buying the Govt. & lame stream medias take on this, I think more needs to be revealed. I've lost trust in both, hopefully truth and real justice will prevail.
    They both have gone to extraordinary lengths to ensure such distrust, haven't they.


    Is it only a matter of time when waving the gadsden flag at a Tea Party rally will be labeled seditious? The question has to be asked, where are you on the tree of liberty? What point are you next for harvest?
    My thoughts exactly.

    There are already rumblings of exactly this sort of thing happening, though it's hard to make heads or tails of it yet.

    With what the Patriot Act enabled, who's to say what measures are now being used.

    Though, the proof will be in the "pudding" with this group.

    Again, it's a case of catching someone a bit in advance of actually blowing up something, killing someone. Yet, conspiring to do these things is certainly criminal. Depends wholly on what exactly they were caught doing, or whether much was fabricated or assumed. Depends. I hope it's all revealed and shown, else the proof will be lacking and contribute to distrust of the whole machinery.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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    re:JAT40

    Quote Originally Posted by JAT40 View Post
    Sedition:
    the courts have applied a more stringent test of sedition to ensure that constitutional guarantees regarding freedom of speech are not abridged.

    -----------------------

    I have a hard time buying the Govt. & lame stream medias take on this, I think more needs to be revealed. I've lost trust in both, hopefully truth and real justice will prevail.
    The way this event can be seen is, an over militarized police force picking the low hanging fruit on the liberty tree, causing a timely diversion from the socialization of America.
    Is it only a matter of time when waving the gadsden flag at a Tea Party rally will be labeled seditious? The question has to be asked, where are you on the tree of liberty? What point are you next for harvest?
    If in fact this group was conspiring to murder an officer they should be condemned and severely dealt with.
    Except for their right to a fair trial and a very skeptical legal presumption of innocence, they deserve nothing from the rest of us. Certainly not our sympathy.

    If the allegations are true these people are UNPATRIOTIC creeps who sought to engage in domestic terrorism to the harm of the rest of us. There's nothing there to applaud.

    I'm constantly amazed at the fact that so many who post here confuse talk of rebellion or preparation for rebellion with patriotism. It is twisted thinking which leads to jail cells or an early grave. Nothing more.

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array cmdrdredd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Except for their right to a fair trial and a very skeptical legal presumption of innocence, they deserve nothing from the rest of us. Certainly not our sympathy.

    If the allegations are true these people are UNPATRIOTIC creeps who sought to engage in domestic terrorism to the harm of the rest of us. There's nothing there to applaud.

    I'm constantly amazed at the fact that so many who post here confuse talk of rebellion or preparation for rebellion with patriotism. It is twisted thinking which leads to jail cells or an early grave. Nothing more.
    Very true. An officer of the law is not the same as a fly that buzzes in our face that we smack. Such a person has been sworn in to protect citizens to the best of their ability and to uphold our laws that make up our society. Freedom doesn't mean being able to do anything you want without consequence. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction, we are a nation build upon respect for our fellow man and we have laws or guidelines if you will of how a decent person should act. An officer should not be a target for anyone IMO. They were targeting an officer of the law and as such should not have any special privileges just because they don't like the government in it's current state and you agree with their line of thinking.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
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    Laws are restrictive but sometimes necessary to maintain a civil society. Rights are nonrestrictive but are always necessary to maintain a free society.

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    re:cmdrdredd +1 and more

    Quote Originally Posted by cmdrdredd View Post
    An officer of the law is not the same as a fly that buzzes in our face that we smack.
    All we need to know about them is that they were targeting an officer of the law. That tells the whole story.

    A few months back I was watching a tv re-run of the sitcom in which "Andy" is the Sheriff of Mayberry, and "Barney" is the bumbling sidekick.

    In the episode, Barney gets assigned to run a couple of con men out of town. When he catches up with them they look at his size and demeanor and attempt to intimidate him.

    Barney summons up all of his courage and strength and tells them in no uncertain terms that his badge represents ALL the people of Mayberry and it isn't just himself they are messing with, and they had best obey his order.

    It was an eloquent scene with an eloquent speech about the relationship between ordinary citizens, the police, and the respect owed them as our representatives.

    When groups such as the one we are discussing plot against ordinary officers they are plotting against ALL of us, and no amount of pseudo -patriotism or false religiosity can alter that basic fact.
    Last edited by Hopyard; March 30th, 2010 at 09:23 PM.

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    Distinguished Member Array Der Alte's Avatar
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    No sympathy but I do think they ought to run an investigation of all the members of congress and the administration that failed to pay their taxes.:)
    Its a shame that youth is wasted on the young.

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    VIP Member Array cmdrdredd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Der Alte View Post
    No sympathy but I do think they ought to run an investigation of all the members of congress and the administration that failed to pay their taxes.:)
    Good luck with that...I'll be rooting for you!
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
    -Thomas Jefferson

    Laws are restrictive but sometimes necessary to maintain a civil society. Rights are nonrestrictive but are always necessary to maintain a free society.

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array cmdrdredd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    All we need to know about them is that they were targeting an officer of the law. That tells the whole story.

    When groups such as the one we are discussing plot against ordinary officers they are plotting against ALL of us, and no amount of pseudo -patriotism or false religiosity can alter that basic fact.
    Right, maybe there's a few bad eggs out there. Ok no maybe about it, there are dirty cops. However, the majority of them really strive to do a good job. While at times might seem to hinder our fun or be a pain in our backside, you have to realize that they deal with everything from violent crimes to the guy late for work who spilled coffee on his pants and runs a red light. I think many people view them with the wrong attitude. They aren't against you, they are only trying to keep some semblance of order in the screwed up world we live in.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
    -Thomas Jefferson

    Laws are restrictive but sometimes necessary to maintain a civil society. Rights are nonrestrictive but are always necessary to maintain a free society.

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    Ex Member Array Cold Warrior's Avatar
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    Once again, my gun and freedom-loving patriotic Christian friends, you can smile and consider yourselves profiled. People with brains are still more concerned and worried about Moozlums who blow up airplanes and trains. Tonight, CBS media mouthpieces also worried and warned us that there might also be some militia bitchin' and opposition to this upcoming immigration legislation that will give amnesty to 20 million illegal Mexican aliens or more, at least according to these pet old-media whores. Also consider the significance of this insignificant statistic: Nine so-called Christian militia members out of 200 million [?] real ones, fewer of whom like to have fun with guns.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Array TheGreatGonzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Warrior View Post
    Also consider the significance of this insignificant statistic: Nine so-called Christian militia members out of 200 million [?] real ones, fewer of whom like to have fun with guns.


    Not very insignficant if you happen to be one of the officers they planned to kill. Who knows how many murderers are actually on the loose in the US at any given day. If the police arrest someone who murdered a member of your family, would the fact that is was only a single arrest make it "insignificant" to you?
    Gonzo
    PS - I agree on the "so-called Christian" part. But obviously that was not why they were targeted.
    "Skin that smokewagon!".

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    Lame explanation

    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Warrior View Post
    Once again, my gun and freedom-loving patriotic Christian friends, you can smile and consider yourselves profiled. People with brains are still more concerned and worried about Moozlums who blow up airplanes and trains. Tonight, CBS media mouthpieces also worried and warned us that there might also be some militia bitchin' and opposition to this upcoming immigration legislation that will give amnesty to 20 million illegal Mexican aliens or more, at least according to these pet old-media whores. Also consider the significance of this insignificant statistic: Nine so-called Christian militia members out of 200 million [?] real ones, fewer of whom like to have fun with guns.
    Above strikes me as a rather lame explanation and defense of these arrested folks.

    Instead of focusing on the allegations against them and their apparent intent, you give an excuse for their behavior which somehow you think justified what they did: upcoming immigration legislation. Nah, that's no justification for what they did. That's a lame excuse and there is nothing to indicate that was their motivation.

    You dismiss concern about those indicted because somehow you think those of a different religion you don't adhere to plot to do similar bad things; as if that makes it OK for this indicted gang to plot to do bad things. Old saying, " two wrongs don't make a right." We want our laws applied even handedly and the religion of the law breaker is quite immaterial.

    You assert that a "CBS mouthpiece" warned us of militia activity. I won't repeat the term you used to describe the "mouthpiece" because I think it is inappropriate for this forum. In any case, I say good. Anytime we can be warned about likely future criminal activity by bank robbers, home invaders, flash mobs, and yes, misguided militia members, it is good for all of us.

    I assume (perhaps wrongly) that the bulk of the participants here obtained their CHL, and in doing so demonstrated at least a modicum of lawfulness. To come here and read supportive statements for the lawless disgusts me.

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array Sig 210's Avatar
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    To come here and read supportive statements for the lawless disgusts me.
    Me too. Today the brother of the Hutaree leader was interviewed on TV. He said that the organization was not about Jesus Christ. This was a far out bunch that planned to kill cops. It is good that they were taken down.

    BTW: No organization that calls itself Christian has an "Evil Jew" forum:

    Phorum :: Evil Jew Forum

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