Bad:KY Woman Raped After Opening Door

This is a discussion on Bad:KY Woman Raped After Opening Door within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by merischino Having had the unfortunate experience of being stalked in the past, I am a person who currently does not open the ...

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Thread: Bad:KY Woman Raped After Opening Door

  1. #31
    Member Array nova83tx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merischino View Post
    Having had the unfortunate experience of being stalked in the past, I am a person who currently does not open the door for anyone unless that person is both expected and can give me a name that matches with the one I expect.

    A census worker will guaranteed not meet my requirements for opening the door. I will not open the door for someone claiming to be a census worker under any circumstances - my requirements would be such that s/he give me a name, rank, serial number, name of boss (no phone number thankyouverymuch -- if I can't call a number I find published in the phone book and arrive at that named boss, I'm not interested) and then wait however long it would take for me to verify that personage.


    I would really like to understand what law/statute exactly requires me to open my door for a census worker. I do not have any hatred towards census workers, I just happen to live in a world where evil lurks and where more than once I have refused to open my door to people who could not or would not explain to my satisfaction who they were or why they were knocking on my door.
    With all respect to the troubling past with the stalker, I would sure hate to be a pizza delivery guy in your neighborhood merischino. I will have a hard time trying to meet your requirements, seeing as how a pizza guy like a census worker, probably doesn't have a rank or serial number . . .

    You order a local pizza to be delivered from a local establishment, do you ask for the driver's name that will be delivering? Once you place the order, do you ask for an exact time of arrival? When the delivery guy arrives, do you have him show an employee badge to your peephole, then another form of photo ID verifying the name on the badge is accurate? If the guy shows up in 15 minutes instead of the quoted 45, do you refuse opening the door? Heaven forbid the boss dispatches a different driver than the one quoted over the phone . . . I can't imagine what would happen!

    You want the easiest answer . . . DON'T OPEN THE DOOR EVER! Apparently your past as affected you in such a way, that you will rarely be able to satisfy your requirements for opening a door. I believe if you just make a predetermined decision to leave the door closed to 100% of visitors, you will alleviate the stress and hassle of having to go through a lengthy qualification and identity of everyone who stops by. Get a nice intercom system, and install a mail or lockable slot if you don't already have one. When a pizza guy comes, slip the cash through your mail slot, and have him leave the item on the doorstep. (If you have seen "Home Alone", you will get the idea)

    With the census worker, I don't believe that there is a law that says you have to "open your door." Answer the 10 questions through an intercom system, a window, or two tin cans with a bit of twine. If the signature is still required, have them slip the form through the before mentioned mail slot, sign, then slip it back outside for the worker. You won't be opening the door and letting down your safety, but you are still able to satisfy the the requirements for the census. If you have filled out the form and returned it by mail, all the above posts are just a moot point.

    We will save another post for how to answer the door when a girl scout selling cookies comes to the door.
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  3. #32
    Member Array merischino's Avatar
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    Didn't drink your Kool Aid

    Quote Originally Posted by nova83tx View Post
    With all respect to the troubling past with the stalker, I would sure hate to be a pizza delivery guy in your neighborhood merischino. I will have a hard time trying to meet your requirements, seeing as how a pizza guy like a census worker, probably doesn't have a rank or serial number . . .

    You order a local pizza to be delivered from a local establishment, do you ask for the driver's name that will be delivering? Once you place the order, do you ask for an exact time of arrival? When the delivery guy arrives, do you have him show an employee badge to your peephole, then another form of photo ID verifying the name on the badge is accurate? If the guy shows up in 15 minutes instead of the quoted 45, do you refuse opening the door? Heaven forbid the boss dispatches a different driver than the one quoted over the phone . . . I can't imagine what would happen!

    You want the easiest answer . . . DON'T OPEN THE DOOR EVER! Apparently your past as affected you in such a way, that you will rarely be able to satisfy your requirements for opening a door. I believe if you just make a predetermined decision to leave the door closed to 100% of visitors, you will alleviate the stress and hassle of having to go through a lengthy qualification and identity of everyone who stops by. Get a nice intercom system, and install a mail or lockable slot if you don't already have one. When a pizza guy comes, slip the cash through your mail slot, and have him leave the item on the doorstep. (If you have seen "Home Alone", you will get the idea)

    With the census worker, I don't believe that there is a law that says you have to "open your door." Answer the 10 questions through an intercom system, a window, or two tin cans with a bit of twine. If the signature is still required, have them slip the form through the before mentioned mail slot, sign, then slip it back outside for the worker. You won't be opening the door and letting down your safety, but you are still able to satisfy the the requirements for the census. If you have filled out the form and returned it by mail, all the above posts are just a moot point.

    We will save another post for how to answer the door when a girl scout selling cookies comes to the door.
    Sorry dude, I was very specific in my post about my requirements: I have no problems with expected visitors. Unexpected visitors must pass the smell test: is it someone I know personally? is it someone that is responsible in some way for the property/neighborhood upon which/in which I live? Is it a person performing a service which was anticipated but not necessarily scheduled (e.g., delivery man)?

    The census worker does not fit into any of the above scenarios.

    If I order pizza, and I get a knock on my door thereafter, all I need to is call out "Who is there?" and get a response of "Pizza delivery" and I will open the door. I do not believe that any of my posts indicated anything differently.

    I do feel, however, to be persecuted by the folks on this thread. By you and by Janq and by others who feel that a woman, posting on a thread about a woman who opened the door and was raped as a result, asking a question about when/how to establish safety when answering the door to a person who claims to be a census worker, is in essence stating that she refuses sensibility, rationality, and willingness to abide by the laws of her country by having such a question.

    I find that response to an honest question both offensive and appalling.
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  4. #33
    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
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    I can't find a link to it, but I'm some how reminded of a movie scene.

    It's the Tommy Lee Jones movie where he's guarding the college girls and he orders pizza for the first time.

  5. #34
    Member Array nova83tx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merischino View Post
    I do feel, however, to be persecuted by the folks on this thread. By you and by Janq and by others
    There should be no reason to feel persecuted, we are just offering opinions of the situation that differ from yours. If you look again at my and Janq's posts, I believe that we both answered your questions seriously and sincerely, though not in the way you wanted.

    My answer, summarized again, just don't open the door, because no law says you have to. Get a nice intercom system, a wireless security camera, and a lockable slot and the problem is solved! It sounds like you may have stopped reading my post after the 1st paragraph, and didn't get to my seemingly simple solution.

    My digression about the pizza delivery guy, was merely a point in reasonable actions for safety (which I am a huge fan of!), and not going overboard. How do we know what is overboard . . . we find the actions of others to find what a reasonable person would do in a situation. I for one would not have a problem when a credentialed census worker arrived after I was mailed notice. BTW . . . how would you know that someone doesn't tap your phone, and then when you call for a pizza delivery, they grab a generic pizza warmer and walk on up to your door??

    Also, IN MY OPINON, a census worker with an issued badge ID arriving at a front door during daylight hours after the household has not returned the questionnaire, after the household has received notice of an appointment and someone is stopping by, should be expected, and is performing a service that should be anticipated but not necessarily scheduled in detail. Also, IN MY OPINON, a census taker IS RESPONSIBLE in a very direct way for your neighborhood.

    Please don't be under the impression this time that you are being persecuted, when all that the discussions means is that people disagree.
    Last edited by nova83tx; April 4th, 2010 at 05:51 PM.
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  6. #35
    Member Array nova83tx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21bubba View Post
    I can't find a link to it, but I'm some how reminded of a movie scene.

    It's the Tommy Lee Jones movie where he's guarding the college girls and he orders pizza for the first time.
    I believe the film you are looking for is called "Man of the House"

    Reactions for Jones answering the door expecting a hit squad should not be similar to those actions of answering a door for an alleged census taker.
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  7. #36
    Senior Member Array tbrenke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KralBlbec View Post
    People can refuse as long as they want, but eventually they will get the police involved to force someone to answer. There is a hefty fine involved if that happens. You can't just ignore a census worker like you can a vacuum salesman.
    you can have how many people live in my home.
    anything more then that, you do not need.
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  8. #37
    Senior Member Array tbrenke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merischino View Post
    What do you guys to do identify yourself for folks like me who have suffered from violence in the past and are only interested in preventing that from happening again (which statistics show overwhelmingly it does, to victims of stalking)

    And I'll ask again, is there a law that makes it illegal to refuse to open one's door to someone who does not properly identify themselves?
    NO,
    you do not have to open the door.
    you DO have to tell them how many people live there.


    Title 13
    Sec. 221. Refusal or neglect to answer questions; false answers
    this does not say you have to open the door!!

    it does say that any info that you provide must be the truth.
    //////////////

    as for my opnion,
    I am more then willing to be the test case for ANSWERING how many people live in my home, and nothing else.
    if they then feel the need to prosecute me for REFUSING to answer the rest of the questions, then have at it.

    the climate in this country is RIPE for this kind of civil disobedience.

    again, you do not have to OPEN a door to answer any questions.
    "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution, which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." -1792, James Madison
    There are always too many Democratic, Republican and never enough U.S. congressmen.

  9. #38
    VIP Member Array JoJoGunn's Avatar
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    Getting back to the original post and discussion.

    A. Woman opens door at 11:45 PM to investigate a noise or of someone outside.

    B. Attacker then forces his way into her home, and rapes her.

    This whole situation is about opening the door to the unknown. Someone was lurking around her home and she opened the door to investigate and got attacked. Nobody, no Census people, no pizza delivery, no FBI, Police, not one person knocked on her door. She opened it and was brutally attacked and raped by someone lurking in the shadows.

    The whole point I was determined to make was that we need to be very careful when investigating strange noises outside. Just don't tear the door open to see what is going on. She could have easily not done so and prevented an attack.

    If the person had knocked on her door, the situation may have been much the same if she just opened the door without the individual presenting identification or reason why they are there. You should not open the door unless you are positive that person is who they say they are. If you have any doubt, do not open it, call 911 and let the Police handle the situation.
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