In the Detroit area

This is a discussion on In the Detroit area within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; This mornings news covered a story about a father who shot & killed his son. The coroner's report stated the following: 1 The victim died ...

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Thread: In the Detroit area

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    Member Array jackg's Avatar
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    In the Detroit area

    This mornings news covered a story about a father who shot & killed his son. The coroner's report stated the following:
    1 The victim died as a result a head shot with a .40 cal. semi-auto handgun.
    2. The gun was no more than 24" away
    3. There was no exit wound. The round entered through the front of the skull but, the rear wall stopped it from exiting.
    I've read many posts regarding the "stopping power" of various ammo but, this is real data guys.
    If someone had asked me "Do you think a head shot from 2 feet away would exit through the rear?" My answer would have been "definitely". Not any more.
    Jack
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackg View Post
    This mornings news covered a story about a father who shot & killed his son. The coroner's report stated the following:
    1 The victim died as a result a head shot with a .40 cal. semi-auto handgun.
    2. The gun was no more than 24" away
    3. There was no exit wound. The round entered through the front of the skull but, the rear wall stopped it from exiting.
    I've read many posts regarding the "stopping power" of various ammo but, this is real data guys.
    If someone had asked me "Do you think a head shot from 2 feet away would exit through the rear?" My answer would have been "definitely". Not any more.
    Jack
    But it DID stop him, right?

    Hopefully, it was a justified shoot and not a domestic squabble.
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    But it DID stop him, right?

    Hopefully, it was a justified shoot and not a domestic squabble.
    I don't know for a "fact" that it did stop him, maybe he was sitting down I just don't know. He did die as a result of being shot.
    I can't imagine any set of circumstances where you could call a Father murdering his son as a justified shooting. I have a 42 year old son and if he confronted me with my gun in hand I couldn't EVER pull the trigger. I would let him kill me.
    But again I don't know all the circumstances I only know what the TV media said this morning about the Coroners report so I can't even vouch for the accuracy of that.
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    Distinguished Member Array Rugergirl's Avatar
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    Still trying to find a news link for this.
    It happen a few weeks ago, and from what I remember the father either caught the son(or the son admitted) molesting his step sister. The father dragged the kid out in the front yard and shot him
    "execution style" in the middle of the street.
    I'll keep hunting and see what I can find.

    Found it:
    http://www.detnews.com/article/20100...ooting-my-son-
    another link here:
    http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/21630930/detail.html
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    Sad all the way around.
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    Just remember that all bullets do not follow the same path under the same circumstances. I've heard of war stories (in the EMS field) where a .22LR round was fired at someones head. The round struck the skull and was deflected under the skin. The round continued a fair distance under the scalp, not exactly sure how far, and exited. Entry and exit wound, no hole through the head. Also, your cranium varies in thickness throughout, which probably has the most control over what the round does.

    So ya, maybe not definitely, but possibly.
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    VIP Member Array Hiram25's Avatar
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    This is just plain awful. Now there are three lives totally ruined, the son who is dead, the step-sister who is molested, and the dad who is either going to jail for the rest of his life, or if they have the death penalty, could get that. No happy ending on this one.

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    To the original point, I've never seen good data on over-penetration in real scenarios, though I know an FBI report made some years ago stated that fear of liability from over-penetration has little foundation. I think the story posted by the OP illustrates this very well.

    One should choose a gun and caliber suitable for survival, rather than suitable for civil suits. This isn't to say that I disdain mouse guns or .380's, far from it if that's the most you can carry per how you dress.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lance22 View Post
    To the original point, I've never seen good data on over-penetration in real scenarios, though I know an FBI report made some years ago stated that fear of liability from over-penetration has little foundation. I think the story posted by the OP illustrates this very well.

    One should choose a gun and caliber suitable for survival, rather than suitable for civil suits. This isn't to say that I disdain mouse guns or .380's, far from it if that's the most you can carry per how you dress.
    Thanks Lance for getting back to the point of the post, unfortunately no one else has tried to comment on it. My EDC is a Glock 19, 9MM, but now I'm asking myself if I should be carrying my 1911 (.45) and, I thought many others would feel the same.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiram25 View Post
    This is just plain awful. Now there are three lives totally ruined, the son who is dead, the step-sister who is molested, and the dad who is either going to jail for the rest of his life, or if they have the death penalty, could get that. No happy ending on this one.
    Ah, no worries about the death penalty here in liberal Michigan. He'll probably be sentenced to "life" which means he'll be back on the street in about 7 years if he follows the Michigan average. Sooner if yet another liberal governor succeeds Granholm.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackg View Post
    Thanks Lance for getting back to the point of the post, unfortunately no one else has tried to comment on it. My EDC is a Glock 19, 9MM, but now I'm asking myself if I should be carrying my 1911 (.45) and, I thought many others would feel the same.
    Jack
    Well, first off it was a .40 that ostensibly "failed," not a 9mm. One can't assume that with a headshot, a 9mm would perform worse, or a .45 would perform better. And anyway we have no data on the actual load used, right? Could have been a weak reload for all we know.
    "Be justified. Blood may be easily wiped from the sword.
    It cannot, however, be put back from where it came." --Quicksabre

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    I carry a 9mm as well and I feel I will be able to one shot stop anyone at 2 ft with a direct shot to the skull.

    A 40 will do it as well will a 45. So will a 38, 357, 44, and on and on...

    I would not let the fact that the 40 did not have a through and through discourage my choice of firearm in the least. It was a headshot that would have stopped anybody. There is a reason we have a skull. It is to protect the most important part of our body. It had better be hard. Just as the round you choose to use had better penetrate. Yes it should penetrate to the point of overpenetration even given the right circumstances.

    Hard facts dictate that as cartridge lethality goes up so too does penetration. If it is penetration you are worried about than maybe the 40 is perfect. In this instance it delivered a devastating blow yet did not over penetrate.

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    Just heard on the 7pm news that the judge in this case exceeded the sentencing guidelines and sentenced the father in this case to 35 to 80 years. He must serve 37 years before becoming eligible for parole.
    DM2
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