Embarrassing: Police academy instructor shoots self in front of class.

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Thread: Embarrassing: Police academy instructor shoots self in front of class.

  1. #1
    Ex Member Array Cold Warrior's Avatar
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    Embarrassing: Police academy instructor shoots self in front of class.


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    Member Array cz2075bd's Avatar
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    Wow, history repeats itself. I thought you were going to link to this, which has been around many times: YouTube - DEA Agent (DEA trainer to class: This is an unloaded Glock .40, and I'm the only one in this room who is professional enough to know how to carry a Glock .40... <BANG> [nd]).

    Then I read your link and it's a brand new incident, my jaw dropped.

    Just a reminder to always follow all gun safety rules to the letter.
    pro-CZ's, pro-AR's, anti-CZAR's

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    VIP Member Array boricua's Avatar
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    Some people will only learn the hard way. I'm glad that no one else got hurt and the instructor is alive...
    Duty, Honor, Country...MEDIC!!!
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    VIP Member Array Hiram25's Avatar
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    Weapon should have been cleared prior to the class beginning. If a weapon is loaded while in a training session, it should never be removed from the holster. Training 101 This is for classroom training.

    On a range for firing demonstrations it would obviously be different, but then range rules would be in effect and should prevent most accidents or incidents.
    Last edited by Hiram25; April 10th, 2010 at 09:47 PM. Reason: Difference for Classroom and Range Training

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    Bet those recruits will never forget what happens when someone neglects the four rules.

    Glad it wasn't worse.

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    I know this guy; he is a good guy and knows what he is doing. I have no idea what actually happened, but I'm sure I'll get the scoop soon enough.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    I wonder what the setup was, in terms of the where everything was sitting in relation to the people in the room. I wonder if they could adhere to each of the four gun safety rules in that room, as guns were brought into play.

    Has anyone found a video of that seminar??
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
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    I'm sure that he is a good guy and that many people know him, but he shot himself and he could just have easily shot someone else.

    I believe that this statement...
    ...Stewart is a retired law enforcement officer who works as an adjunct instructor at Butler Tech...

    Needs a tense change...from "works" to "worked", OMO

    Even being a nice guy requires minimal safety standards that require not shooting yourself or others. I wonder how long a student would remain in that class having made the same mistake?
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    I'm glad he's okay. It does serve as a reminder that none of us are immune from making a mistake.
    Turn the election's in 2014 to a "2A Revolution". It will serve as a 1994 refresher not to "infringe" on our Second Amendment. We know who they are now.........SEND 'EM HOME. Our success in this will be proportional to how hard we work to make it happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiram25 View Post
    Weapon should have been cleared prior to the class beginning. If a weapon is loaded while in a training session, it should never be removed from the holster.
    I tighten it up a little more for my Instructors and students and go with NO LIVE AMMO allowed in the classroom.
    Training means learning the rules. Experience means learning the exceptions.

  12. #11
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    Someone forgot to yell, "Holster an empty gun!"
    Government's first duty is to protect the people, not run their lives.
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  13. #12
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    I believe that this statement...
    ...Stewart is a retired law enforcement officer who works as an adjunct instructor at Butler Tech...

    Needs a tense change...from "works" to "worked", OMO
    I'm normally quick as most folks to zero-in on mistakes in procedure and safety that could be improved.

    However, it seems to me that one mistake from an intelligent and observant person doesn't by itself justify destruction of a career.

    And, quite simply, this is a lesson that his class will find that no amount of money could buy. If nothing else, this is a lesson they'll never forget.

    Any such situation is a bad one. Obviously, with firearms the risk is the potential death or injury of someone. Beyond that risk, though, the error made was relatively simple and differs little from those minor errors made by all craftsmen and skilled people, by leatherworkers, machinists, teachers or anyone else.

    I'd be surprised by any swordsman or swordsmaker who had never been "bit" by the blade; and I'd be willing to bet such a person was neither truly expert nor experienced if he'd never been cut.

    So long as he continues to meet the training requirements and qualifications, and so long as the training regimen and his procedures are updated and refined to minimize this risk in future, I wouldn't have a problem with him retaining his position. I'm sure he'll continue to teach hundreds and thousands of people to at least as high degree of quality as he's been doing.

    The former DEA agent who blew it (Lee Paige), OTOH, did so after arrogantly claiming he was the only person present in the room who knew how to safely handle firearms. That's called digging your own grave, right there. I believe it was his blind arrogance that got him drummed out of the service, not his mistake.

    What the guy in this thread did, though, wasn't quite the same thing. He knew exactly what he'd done. He didn't have the bald-faced arrogance of Paige. I'm sure both he and the organization he's working with will make fundamental changes to minimize such situations in future. Because of that, I'm sure would continue to make a fine instructor of firearms handling and safety.

    The lesson for all of us: it only takes a momentary lapse; it can happen to anyone; NEVER vary or skip simple gun safety procedures, as it can cost a life.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
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  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    I'm normally quick as most folks to zero-in on mistakes in procedure and safety that could be improved.

    However, it seems to me that one mistake from an intelligent and observant person doesn't by itself justify destruction of a career.

    And, quite simply, this is a lesson that his class will find that no amount of money could buy. If nothing else, this is a lesson they'll never forget.

    Any such situation is a bad one. Obviously, with firearms the risk is the potential death or injury of someone. Beyond that risk, though, the error made was relatively simple and differs little from those minor errors made by all craftsmen and skilled people, by leatherworkers, machinists, teachers or anyone else.

    I'd be surprised by any swordsman or swords maker who had never been "bit" by the blade; and I'd be willing to bet such a person was neither truly expert nor experienced if he'd never been cut.

    So long as he continues to meet the training requirements and qualifications, and so long as the training regimen and his procedures are updated and refined to minimize this risk in future, I wouldn't have a problem with him retaining his position. I'm sure he'll continue to teach hundreds and thousands of people to at least as high degree of quality as he's been doing.

    The former DEA agent who blew it (Lee Paige), OTOH, did so after arrogantly claiming he was the only person present in the room who knew how to safely handle firearms. That's called digging your own grave, right there. I believe it was his blind arrogance that got him drummed out of the service, not his mistake.

    What the guy in this thread did, though, wasn't quite the same thing. He knew exactly what he'd done. He didn't have the bald-faced arrogance of Paige. I'm sure both he and the organization he's working with will make fundamental changes to minimize such situations in future. Because of that, I'm sure would continue to make a fine instructor of firearms handling and safety.

    The lesson for all of us: it only takes a momentary lapse; it can happen to anyone; NEVER vary or skip simple gun safety procedures, as it can cost a life.
    I do agree, and perhaps my wording was a bit misunderstood. I certainly did not mean loss of career, pay, retirement, etc.
    I would, however, expect that his teaching position as a 'leader' in that class/course for that organization/program would probably be expected to cease.
    Any civilian who had a misfire at home would be charged with some 'type of endangerment', and here we have an individual who was in the midst of many other people and wounded himself.


    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    From another thread, such as:
    Man charged after firing pistol in apartment
    April 8, 2010,


    "A 60-year-old ****** man was charged with misdemeanor second-degree reckless endangerment recently after he accidentally fired a .40-caliber pistol through his apartment wall.

    State police responded to a 911 call at a ***** Road apartment complex. The bullet from the Smith & Wesson pistol ended up in the adjoining apartment wall, police said.

    **** ***** was issued an appearance ticket for Town of ******** Court after the incident."
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Thousands and thousands of instructors across this nation teach gun courses without discharging a weapon.
    Most courses, and I'm sure this one did, will stipulate the safety standards for the course...participants are told that any violation of the safety rules could mean immediate expulsion from the course.
    I would find it hard to believe that an individual in a gun course, who is able to 'shoot' himself or others, would still remain the 'leader' for future courses in that organization.

    If it were any other 'Joe Citizen', this forum would be climbing all over the stupidity of such an action. I find it a bit unfair to allow a 'special individual' any leeway because of his/her career position.
    Go to any range and have a ND/AD during a cold line, or instruction and see just how long you are allowed to hang around.
    If any of us were at a range or in a classroom and your 'classmate' had a NG, would you feel it was just a silly mistake or would you be a bit concerned about remaining near that person? I'm just sayin'...

    As always ccw9mm, I respect your points, enjoy your threads, and partially agree with you...I just differ a little in just how we bend the safety rules for some.
    Last edited by RETSUPT99; April 11th, 2010 at 12:21 PM.
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  15. #14
    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
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    I don't get it. If you're cleaning a gun and have to pull the trigger for diassembly I can see an ND. Your still an idiot for not clearing the weapon first, but I can see it. What I don't get is "accidentally shot self in leg" or foot or head. They must randomly pull the trigger while handling the gun? What part of a firearms safety class requires an instructor to pull the trigger outside of the range? Am I wrong?

    Is it normal for people handing a firearm to randomly and mindlessly pull the trigger as if they were clicking a ball point pen?
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  16. #15
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    As always ccw9mm, I respect your points, enjoy your threads, and partially agree with you...I just differ a little in just how we bend the safety rules for some.
    I don't "bend 'em" for anyone. They still exist, and they'll be there long after we're all dust and daisies.

    It's an expensive lesson, but far cheaper than it could otherwise have been. He shot himself. The students got a lesson they'll not find in the syllabus. Nobody died, and everyone learned.

    My only issue is with the concept of loss of his role as teacher. My only point was that he's still got lots to teach. Unlike the uber-arrogant Paige, this guy probably would be a better teacher because of this misstep, and it's for that reason I'd think that we should keep the ultimate purpose in mind: teaching the students to the best of our ability. That's all.

    As for bangin' on his head for the mistake, I figured everyone else would be jumping heavily enough. Little need to pile on from the right.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

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