Calif. DA: Police killing of bystander justified

Calif. DA: Police killing of bystander justified

This is a discussion on Calif. DA: Police killing of bystander justified within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; A district attorney's report says an officer who fatally shot a bystander at a California pizzeria robbery was legally justified. Calif. DA: Police killing of ...

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  1. #1
    Ex Member Array WhoWeBePart1's Avatar
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    Post Calif. DA: Police killing of bystander justified

    A district attorney's report says an officer who fatally shot a bystander at a California pizzeria robbery was legally justified.

    Calif. DA: Police killing of bystander justified - AP News Wire, Associated Press News - Salon.com

    EDIT: Here is some more information: Officer justified in fatal firefight, DA says | Inland News | PE.com | Southern California News | News for Inland Southern California

    Lisner said she believed the Riverside County resident and his friend were the ones exchanging fire with her colleagues on the other side of the pizzeria. In a poorly lit parking lot, Balandran continued to approach her and then ducked behind a car.

    When he emerged, Lisner noticed him holding something. She said she asked him to show his hands but he did not, Hidalgo wrote.

    The victim "suddenly turned" with the item, the prosecutor noted. Still hearing gunfire, and believing she was in danger, Lisner shot Balandran once in the chest, Hidalgo wrote.

    Under all the circumstances, her "split second" decision was reasonable and legal, Hidalgo wrote. The item turned out to be a McDonald's food container.
    Last edited by WhoWeBePart1; May 9th, 2010 at 05:30 PM.


  2. #2
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    SATURDAY May 08, 2010 21:42 ET
    Calif. DA: Police killing of bystander justified
    By Associated Press

    A district attorney's report says an officer who fatally shot a bystander at a California pizzeria robbery was legally justified.

    Chino police Cpl. Claudia Lisner shot 23-year-old Daniel Balandran outside the restaurant on Feb. 1, 2009.

    Balandran was leaving a McDonald's and walked into a gunbattle between officers and two robbery suspects.

    The report released Friday says Balandran was wearing the same color shirt as the suspects and came from the same direction as the shots.

    The report says Lisner asked Balandran to show his hands, but he did not. Lisner kept hearing shots and feared for her life, and she shot him in the chest.

    An attorney for Balandran's family calls the report a "whitewash."

    The two suspects also suffered gunshot wounds and were charged with murder.
    Very tragic... For some reason, I don't think if it was a civilian ccw holder making the mistake it would get the same ruling.

    I'm just sayin'
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  3. #3
    VIP Member Array SpencerB's Avatar
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    I agree ^^^^^

  4. #4
    Distinguished Member Array Tally XD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    Very tragic... For some reason, I don't think if it was a civilian ccw holder making the mistake it would get the same ruling.

    I'm just sayin'
    I agree, however, a CCW has no business stopping a robbery unless the CCW holder was directly threatened.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tally XD View Post
    I agree, however, a CCW has no business stopping a robbery unless the CCW holder was directly threatened.
    100%... I don't get involved in that type of thing unless there is no other choice. And there's almost always another choice!
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  6. #6
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    I think someone in Chino needs to re-look the words "justifiable killing" and "bystander"...especially if the person DOESN'T have a weapon.

    That said--would one of us be justified in shooting someone who wouldn't show his hands? I don't think so....Granted, more details of the incident would be nice...
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  7. #7
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    Whitewash. It wasn't justified because the bystander was no threat, at most the false appearance of a threat.

    The action may not be criminal given the totality of the circumstances, and that is the DA's legitimate call to make; but civilly it is negligence.

    I'm in with the whitewash vote. If it were one of us who shot an innocent bystander we'd be looking at lots of unpleasant time in our future.

  8. #8
    Distinguished Member Array jumpwing's Avatar
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    If a bystander gets shot as a CCW defends against a clear and immediate threat to her life, it's a tragic reminder that only experienced professionals like the police and military should have firearms.

    If a bystander gets shot as an officer responds to "hearing shots", it's a justifiable shooting.
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    I've got to side with the Officer. The guy had the same color shirt, hearing a gun battle he walked into it, and than wouldn't show his hands. A lot of police are dying out there by gun fire.
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  10. #10
    TOF
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    Where or how were his hands hidden. if they were holding food bags or boxes from McD's it may have been difficult to show them clearly. If walking down a sidewalk most peoples hands would be visible unless stuffed in pockets which is not all that normal.

    I wonder what part of a second transpired between telling him to show and the shot.

    I think we could use a little more info.
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  11. #11
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    More info would be nice. If he (the shootee) walked into a firefight, resembled someone (or someones) who had already shot at the cop, and refused to follow commands... One, who walks TOWARDS the sound of gunfire (except, of course, LGOPs)? Two, who refuses to show their hands to a cop that is either in the middle of or just got finished shooting two robbers? I wasn't there (and neither were any of us), but if the DA dismissed the case this quickly, it would appear that there is sufficient evidence (that we may not be aware of) to support the "justified" ruling.

    As for what the result would have been if it were a CCW holder... As has been said, no CCW holder should be in that situation. If the robbery isn't directed against you, get out of dodge. If the robbery IS directed at you, and you've stopped the immediate threat, get to a safe place and call the police - don't hang around to challenge other folks who wander into the area.

    And this one:
    at most the false appearance of a threat
    ... How do you know it's a false appearance until you've seen the hands, or ascertained the person's identity and/or reason for being in the middle of a gunfight? Is someone reasonably appears to be a threat, based on the totality of the circumstances, that person can be and MUST be treated as a threat until proven otherwise - this is the basis of all self-defense and justified use of force procedures... If someone points an empty Airsoft gun at you and says "I'm going to shoot you with this," are they an imminent deadly threat? No. Would you be justified in THINKING that they were and reacting accordingly? Of course. To take away a cop's ability to react to what he/she reasonably believes to be a threat is ludicrous.

    As for "whitewash - this is what the shootees family's attorney said. You know, like the attorneys for all those "good kids who were just getting ready to turn their lives around, right after they robbed you at gunpoint" say every time an armed citizen stops their violent crime with justified violence in return... Funny how this line is swallowed when it can be used to make a govt agency or police officer look bad...
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  12. #12
    Ex Member Array WhoWeBePart1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TOF View Post
    I think we could use a little more info.
    I posted some more information that helps clear things up.

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    re: OPFOR

    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    And this one: ... How do you know it's a false appearance until you've seen the hands,
    I think there is a slight misunderstand on your part about what I wrote and what I tried to convey. It was a false appearance of a threat simply because in fact, the man shot wasn't really a threat. So the appearance that he was a threat was false.

    Whether or not the officer could ascertain that in the heat of the moment is a different issue. It is quite possible for two things to be true here: 1) the officer felt justified by what he was seeing; 2) the shooting victim was absolutely innocent of anything more than poor situational awareness.

    In any case, the thing speaks for itself. An innocent is dead. Not dropping your bag of groceries or sacked McD in two tenths of a second after hearing a command, when you have no idea what is going on, isn't and shouldn't be a death penalty deal.
    Last edited by Hopyard; May 10th, 2010 at 10:17 PM. Reason: changed word

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    For one the LEO was Female, And thats where I have alittle worry, Every department within three counties of our S/O, Send Men to back any female officer, now I've seen some wemen officers I would'nt go toe to toe with
    And Besides Ca. IS BROKE on all levels ; )
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  15. #15
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    WOW Justifiable

    Cover up for Homicide & Incompetence sounds more like it.

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