How to pull the plug on the Mexican Drug Cartels

How to pull the plug on the Mexican Drug Cartels

This is a discussion on How to pull the plug on the Mexican Drug Cartels within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; An editorial I stumbled upon... The Thin Green Line : Put this in your pipe and smoke it Put this in your pipe and smoke ...

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 20

Thread: How to pull the plug on the Mexican Drug Cartels

  1. #1
    Member Array Barren's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Ca
    Posts
    68

    How to pull the plug on the Mexican Drug Cartels

    An editorial I stumbled upon...


    The Thin Green Line : Put this in your pipe and smoke it

    Put this in your pipe and smoke it

    I have a couple of friends who don't buy much, shop sustainably when they do, don't drive and get their clothes exclusively from sweatshop-free companies. They're some of the most conscientious greens I know. But every so often some more often than others they also buy a little weed for their personal use.


    It may not seem hypocritical at first blush, but buying non-medical marijuana is the most un-green, and the most inhumane, thing you could do. Your small-time dealer might be some California surfer kid, but somewhere along the line that pot most likely came from the Mexican drug cartels. Your money feeds the kidnappings, assassinations, rapes, bribery, and all-around appalling lawlessness of the cartels, and expands the market for the product at their heart.

    NPR is doing a series of stories on Mexico's cartels. Here are some details: South of the border, 24,000 people have died in turf wars over drugs since the end of 2006. Millions more have had their lives destroyed in one way or another. Virtually all of Mexico's marijuana crop comes to the United States, and it is the cartels' single biggest source of cash.

    So, what if we define green in terms of strictly environmental issues? Do you really think the cartels grow their pot sustainably? It's grown as quickly as possible, with plenty of pesticides and fertilizers. Last year, there were 30,000 acres in Mexico planted with cannabis instead of food. The people that do the hard labor live in fear and make next to nothing.

    On this side of the border, the cartels clear-cut plots in protected national forests to grow their crop far from prying eyes. Forty percent of all national forests in the United States are home to illegal pot grows. In California, 80 percent of the growers are Mexican citizens, almost certainly aligned with a cartel. The fertilizers and irrigation pipes do permanent damage to forest ecosystems, as do piles of trash and feces growers leave behind when they're done.

    Sorry, dudes, but you just can't claim to be green if you buy illegal pot. If you want to keep toking up, you have three choices: Buy directly from a semi-legal grower in Mendocino, find a way to get a prescription or lobby for marijuana to be legalized


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    6,781
    I've had this exact same conversation and debate with perons of this articles referenced sort, coming from the same view.

    Continually across different people their reply and response is; In America a majority (!) of the weed purchased does not come from SA but from local and regional US growers. Yes, they say this and with veracity.
    They'll go on to cite article upon news article about the growing number of domestic weed production and how grass in specific is not imported 'nearly as much' as cocaine, hash or ecstasy.

    My response to that then is okay, lets say a majority of the US weed consumption, is by domestically grown and distributed product. Not that for a minute do I believe that to be a fact.

    So then I say, okay fine, then what of the active criminal violence that is directly related to and a requisite function of that 'industry' as related to regional market supply,?
    What of the real costs to society and tax payers by way of violence and abatement of that violence (police & drug enforcement)?

    From that I typically get told tales of the guy they buy from is the nicest easy going guy they know.
    How they people they see making buys are non-violent and pacifistic....And that the majority of the violence is related to 'hard' drugs and abuse of pharmaceuticals.

    Consistently this has been how that conversation has gone for me with folks.

    For the record I am not a user of any drugs at all.
    As to marijuana I personally have no issue with it in specific and feel it should be legal and taxed for domestic growth and import same as tobacco and caffeine.
    I personally do not like it at all and am not a user in any way. I could pass a .GOV or political lie test on that without a concern. I have no quarrel with lawful medical marijuana users.
    Most everyone I know, aside from my wife, is someones unlawful weed product 'customer'. I struggle to think of anyone I don't know who is not.
    If tomorrow it were legal I would not care to buy any. Here in MA minor amount possession was knocked down 2 yrs. ago to be a misdemeanor punishable by a small fine and that's it. I have had zero interest in it even as it is now effectively semi-legal.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array cdwolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    MS
    Posts
    2,261
    So the question is:
    1. Would legalization curb a major percent of the violence?
    2. Would the tax dollars help in securing the border?
    3.Would hard drug use(meth,cocaine,heroine) increase?
    4. Would most drug dealers be put out of business?
    5. Would crime in general be reduced?
    GUN CONTROL= I WANT TO BE THE ONE IN CONTROL OF THE GUN

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

  4. #4
    VIP Member
    Array WHEC724's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    SC
    Posts
    6,610
    I've done plenty of things that I'm not proud of. A key piece of logic that pulled me out of the drug culture was exposure to the 'dark side' of it. If you dabble long enough, you'll eventually get to see first hand the violence and crime that goes along with it. You can't use without supporting the BG's. There is no grey area.

    As Janq mentioned, legalizing eliminates the crime around a particular drug, but only for that drug. The BG's will just find another chemical variant to push. I'm just not a fan of legalizing additional means for our already lethargic population to further screw themselves into the ground.
    __________________________________
    'Clinging to my guns and religion

  5. #5
    VIP Member Array cdwolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    MS
    Posts
    2,261
    Quote Originally Posted by WHEC724 View Post
    I've done plenty of things that I'm not proud of. A key piece of logic that pulled me out of the drug culture was exposure to the 'dark side' of it. If you dabble long enough, you'll eventually get to see first hand the violence and crime that goes along with it. You can't use without supporting the BG's. There is no grey area.

    As Janq mentioned, legalizing eliminates the crime around a particular drug, but only for that drug. The BG's will just find another chemical variant to push. I'm just not a fan of legalizing additional means for our already lethargic population to further screw themselves into the ground.
    How do you feel about alcohol ?

    Regulation over responsibility, I don't understand.
    Prohibition does not work.... Ignoring it does not work
    We can't stop it!! I would rather see a tax paying company profit, and our country gain tax dollars then see millions going to Mexican cartels.I'm for doing whatever it takes to fund securing the boarder. Lock it down and leave our gun's alone!
    I have no facts to back it up, but I bet weed is 70%+ of there business.
    So I wonder how hard they will push for a AWB now?
    GUN CONTROL= I WANT TO BE THE ONE IN CONTROL OF THE GUN

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

  6. #6
    VIP Member
    Array WHEC724's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    SC
    Posts
    6,610
    Quote Originally Posted by cdwolf View Post
    How do you feel about alcohol ?
    I understand your point. Fat, drunk and stupid did in fact get me through college. However, it appeals to my common sense that opening the floodgates to legalize all controlled substances will somehow not improve our society.

    I could be wrong.
    __________________________________
    'Clinging to my guns and religion

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    6,781
    In my own humble opinion AND if I were a betting man, which I am not:

    1. Would legalization curb a major percent of the violence?
    Yes. Why? Keep reading.

    2. Would the [taxed marijuana] tax dollars help in securing the border?
    No. Monies would most probably go to a given states general fund as akin to tobacco and liquor tax and stamp sales.

    3.Would hard drug use (meth,cocaine,heroine) increase?
    No. Soft drug use use would remain relatively same and hard drug users would continue to exist as they have. The only way to eliminate hard drug use is to snap fingers and make them chemically no longer existent in this physical world. Not possible, but even if it were then people would make their own junk ala meth and 'pruno' (prison wine).

    4. Would most drug dealers be put out of business?
    No. Domestic growers would open up shop. Domestic distributors would open up 'head shops'. See the historical lessons of alcohol and prohibition as well as the post prohibition times of 'moonshine', which is functionally no better than pruno.
    Some drug dealers would go legit (!) while others would move on to other product that is not legit, and/or even hybridize. See tobacco and/or liquor history.

    5. Would crime in general be reduced?
    Yes. Why? Because although many dealers would move on to other high profit/high risk product markets, many others would be motivated to go legit....If provided means to do so as licensed resellers of product.
    As well buyers couldnow use credit cards to pay for product and be able to purchase safely in safe environs rather than run tabs with suppliers and risk of entering into areas and locales of criminal violence. A market clean up on the whole, akin to legalized and state monitored as well as consumption taxed prostitution as in forward thinking Nevada.
    I don't believe drug crime would be halved or anything but even a 15% reduction would be a significant real change. As well the tax revenues from as much to the states and federal coffers would be staggering.
    We could rescue whole states from economic bankruptcy, kill the national deficit now and forward to fund nationalized healthcare (for real!) and it would not require any new technology or change of public policy as in truth...And lets be truthful folks...Everybody and their grandma is 'holding' and keeps a 'stash'.
    Legalizing marijuana would be akin to legalizing right turn on red. Most everybody is doing it anyway so why play games.

    Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy? - TIME

    - Janq

    "You can't use without supporting the BG's. There is no grey area." - WHEC724
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  8. #8
    VIP Member
    Array OPFOR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Nomad
    Posts
    4,713
    Pot use is statistically much less dangerous - both for the user and for society at large - than alcohol use. Of course, the means of getting it (pot) to the users is another story entirely...

    I am firmly in the "legalize it" camp. Then again, I am basically in the "legalize ANYTHING that doesn't directly injure/infringe upon the rights of anyone else" camp, so take that for what it's worth. I don't believe that simple usage of pot injures or infringes upon the rights of others, so I say it should be legal, regulated (as little as necessary) and taxed (as little as necessary, and in line with similar substances).

    Yes, manufacturers and dealers could switch to other products, but the fact remains that pot is the most commonly used illegal drug, and legalizing it would not automatically mean some huge demand for other, still illegal substances. Yes, violence surrounding production and distribution would be reduced (as it was with alcohol when the 18th Amendment was repealed). Would overall criminality be reduced? Who knows, there are plenty of folks out there who are just plain criminals. Would the money help secure the borders? Again, who knows - how our tax dollars are spent is up to our representatives (and, thusly, up to us). Would "hard" drug use increase? I don't believe so, and most experts don't think so either. Of course, you never know until you know...
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  9. #9
    Member Array Stratispho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    gilbert, AZ
    Posts
    43
    If you want to keep toking up, you have three choices: Buy directly from a semi-legal grower in Mendocino, find a way to get a prescription or lobby for marijuana to be legalized
    How about a 4th option? Get the Federal Government out of regulating our lives and let the people decide what they want.
    Without government creating an artificial market from it's war on personal freedom, the cartels wouldn't be making any money from weed because anyone that wanted it would be growing it in their yard/house/neighborhood dealer.


    It is not the governments job to regulate morality. It is not their job to decide what I can or cannot put into my body. The words "shall not be infringed" should extend to EVERYTHING, not just guns.
    "Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law,' because the law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual." - Thomas Jefferson

  10. #10
    New Member Array Ninja45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Humboldt, Ca
    Posts
    6
    Ha, I live in the marijuana capital of the US. I would love to see it legalized. Maybe then all the lame 20 something dope growers who moved up here to get rich and have no real job skills would move away! As a young person trying to make an honest living it really gets frustrating to see all these dread headed trust fund kids from southern ca preaching about veganism and evironmental "conciousness" while they are getting rich with indoor marijuana operations that consume ungodly amounts of energy produced with fossil fuels! It's medical of course.

    I guess around here crime pays and money really does grow on trees.

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array cdwolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    MS
    Posts
    2,261
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratispho View Post
    How about a 4th option? Get the Federal Government out of regulating our lives and let the people decide what they want.
    Without government creating an artificial market from it's war on personal freedom, the cartels wouldn't be making any money from weed because anyone that wanted it would be growing it in their yard/house/neighborhood dealer.


    It is not the governments job to regulate morality. It is not their job to decide what I can or cannot put into my body. The words "shall not be infringed" should extend to EVERYTHING, not just guns.

    Exactly, teach your kids to say no!! Good post
    ETA: your right janq..and you articulate better and type faster then I.. but that's my point
    GUN CONTROL= I WANT TO BE THE ONE IN CONTROL OF THE GUN

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

  12. #12
    Ex Member Array JOHNSMITH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    somewhere
    Posts
    1,726
    I have never used any drug and probably never will (I do occasionally use alcohol).

    However, if you want to end it, it is a fairly "simple" answer. End the War on Drugs, now, here. We just had a few officers killed over some drug enforcement as well. We have lost far too many people over plants, powders, liquids, and other such things. This is a social and medical problem, not a legal one.

    We haven't won it and never will. We've poured more and more money and lives into it year after year. Federal Foreign anti-drug policy has helped the "war on drugs" and associated violence to spread to many other countries. It has allowed billions of dollars and weaponry to flow to corrupt regimes all over the world in an attempt to "fight the war on the drugs," when these same regimes ARE the cartels or at least are working with them.

    It contributes to the perpetual political instability in many parts of the world, especially in Central and South America, and the associated poverty. Imagine how much richer and safer the US could be with stable, economically growing Central and South American neighbors. They've already grown explosively - imagine how much more they could grow if they become far safer overnight. The drug industry could be legitimized and also help the economies of these countries (including Afghanistan!), since the people who buy drugs will continue to do so regardless of whatever laws we pass.

    The war on drugs needs to end now. We cannot fight it any longer.

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    texas
    Posts
    15,179
    I see pictures of tons of pot coming across the border every day,along with coke,meth,ectasy and anything they can make a buck on,there may be some domestic grown stuff,but there is a huge amount imported
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  14. #14
    Moderator
    Array gasmitty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Gilbert, AZ
    Posts
    10,777
    My $0.02 worth, since this one hit a nerve:

    The last thing we need is another legal intoxicant. We already have alcohol, nicotine, caffeine and over-the-counter stimulants, depressants and other easily abused "medicines."

    Living in the desert Southwest, I see the effects of readily available illegal and intoxicating drugs. My 21-year-old stepdaughter is a meth addict, and although you can dispute it six ways to Sunday, her "gateway" drugs were tobacco and then weed. The supply out here is seemingly infinite, and if anyone thinks that legalizing marijuana will put an end to the border violence and put the drug cartels out of business, think again. We're not talking about some hillbillies brewing a few dozen gallons of moonshine - the Mexican drug industry is HUGE and the referenced NPR series even publicized collusion between Calderon's government and the biggest drug cartel.

    Sadly, the biggest problem is that the American society has looked the other way while winking and smiling at "social" drug use. We are well into a second generation of recreational drug users, and these days weed, cocaine and heroin are far cheaper (relatively) than 25 years ago. As a result, the American demand for drugs is what has created the problems related to the supply side. Do not kid yourself for a second that creating legal outlets for marijuana will significantly diminish the extremely lucrative business of moving illegal drugs across the southern border. The user base in our own country is far too large for that to make a difference within two generations. The fact that possession of "personal" amounts of marijuana is largely ignored by our judicial system has only served to increase the volume of weed crossing the border over the past decade. You really think legalization will change that?

    So to answer some of the questions thrown out:

    1. Would legalization curb a major percent of the violence?
    Not enough to make a significant difference within 500 miles of the southern border in either direction.

    2. Would the [taxed marijuana] tax dollars help in securing the border?
    Not a prayer. Look what happened to the tobacco lawsuit settlement monies.

    3.Would hard drug use (meth,cocaine,heroine) increase?
    Maybe, maybe not. It certainly would not decrease.

    4. Would most drug dealers be put out of business?
    Not at all. It would take a generation or more for the underground distribution sources to dry up in the best of circumstances, but competition between domestic suppliers and unregulated and untaxed suppliers south of the border growers would continue to keep them in business.

    5. Would crime in general be reduced?
    Without a decrease in the illegal distribution sources, extremely unlikely.

    Again, just my $0.02 worth.
    Smitty
    NRA Endowment Member

  15. #15
    Member Array Stratispho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    gilbert, AZ
    Posts
    43
    It is not the governments job to regulate morality. It is not their job to decide what I can or cannot put into my body. The words "shall not be infringed" should extend to EVERYTHING, not just guns.

    Statement #1. Please back that up with proof. As of now you are simply stating something you have no way of backing up. Do a little research into crime rates and the Prohibition of alcohol and you'll see how wrong you are.

    2. Government shouldn't be taxing anyone, for any reason.

    3. Again, you're making a blanket statement. What was the rate of hard drug use before the "war on drugs"? Less then 1% of the population. What's the rate now? Less then 1% of the population. There is NO way for you, or I, to know if it would decrease or not. Historical evidence says that it would remain roughly the same.

    4. YES, drug dealers would be out of business if drugs were legal. They wouldn't have a government created monopoly. The laws of supply and demand are driving the prices up. If drugs were legal, the demand would stay constant (historical evidence) but the supply would go through the roof. Causing drug dealers to exit the market because they wouldn't be making any money off of it.

    5. Ties into the answer for 4. If drugs were LEGAL there wouldn't be a thing as an "illegal distribution source".

    Some people amaze me. You want freedom? Then promote freedom for EVERYONE for every topic. Not just gun rights. If not, you're promoting statism for someone else.
    Just because your relative can't control themselves, doesn't mean that other people need laws made to control them.
    "Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law,' because the law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual." - Thomas Jefferson

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Drug Cartels threatening South Texas LEO's
    By dukalmighty in forum Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: November 21st, 2010, 10:50 PM
  2. Mexican Drug Violence- Drug Cartels vs. Legalizing Drugs in America?
    By Tally XD in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 44
    Last Post: August 30th, 2010, 08:12 AM
  3. 100,000 foot soldiers in Mexican cartels...
    By jbone in forum Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: March 5th, 2009, 07:24 PM
  4. U.S. Guns Arm Mexican Drug Cartels
    By mrreynolds in forum General Firearm Discussion
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: August 11th, 2008, 07:17 PM
  5. ABC News: U.S. Is Arming Mexican Drug Cartels
    By Captain Crunch in forum The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion
    Replies: 34
    Last Post: May 7th, 2008, 07:26 PM

Search tags for this page

do i need a mexican plug to get the best prices on drugs
,
how 2 find a mexican plug
,
how find a mexican plug on drugs
,

how to find a drug plug

,
how to find a mexican plug
,
how to find drug plugs
,
how to get a mexican drug plug
,
how to get a mexican plug
,
how to get a plug mexico
,
looking for a mexican weed plug
,
mexican drug plug
,
mexican plug for drugs
Click on a term to search for related topics.