Black Homeowner's Claim of Self-Defense Rejected in Fatal Shooting

This is a discussion on Black Homeowner's Claim of Self-Defense Rejected in Fatal Shooting within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Law.com - Black Homeowner's Claim of Self-Defense Rejected in Fatal Shooting An appeals court in Brooklyn on Friday upheld the conviction for manslaughter and gun ...

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Thread: Black Homeowner's Claim of Self-Defense Rejected in Fatal Shooting

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    Member Array MN2Go's Avatar
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    Black Homeowner's Claim of Self-Defense Rejected in Fatal Shooting

    Law.com - Black Homeowner's Claim of Self-Defense Rejected in Fatal Shooting

    An appeals court in Brooklyn on Friday upheld the conviction for manslaughter and gun possession of a Long Island, N.Y., black man who shot a white teenager to death in a confrontation in front of the man's home.

    John H. White was sentenced to two to four years in prison for killing the teen, Daniel Cicciaro Jr., 17, who arrived at White's house along with four other teens in two cars and challenged White's son Aaron, 19, to fight as the group shouted racial epithets at the son and father, both of whom were armed.

    A unanimous panel of the Appellate Division, 2nd Department, upheld the jury's rejection of White's defense that the shooting was justified because he believed he was defending his family from a "lynch mob."

    The appellate panel found that the jury's rejection of the defense was not against the weight of the evidence. Justice Randall T. Eng writing for the panel noted that White testified that he had not observed any weapons in the hands of the teens, and Aaron had testified that Cicciaro had challenged him to come into the street to fight.

    "The victim's clearly expressed desire to fight Aaron outside undercuts the claim that the defendant reasonably believed the youths were going to attempt to enter his home," Eng wrote in People v. White, 2662/06.

    In addition, Eng wrote, White could have called 911 for police assistance, a "clear alternative" to confronting the youths who had gathered outside his home.
    If our lives are endangered by plots or violence or armed robbers or enemies, any and every method of protecting ourselves is morally right. -- Cicero

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    Senior Member Array Lewis128's Avatar
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    IMHO using the racial component for legal leverage clouds the real issues.
    The first problem I see, is this happened in NYC.
    Guns in NYC for self defense are a no-no!
    If it happened in a more 2nd Amend friendly, less liberal area, Mr White would be trying to decide which flavor Sweet Baby Ray's BBQ to use on the ribs next Monday.

    Second, if he had enough warning to meet the boys in the front yard armed, perhaps he could have dialed 911. Maybe he CC's while mowing his yard, some on this forum do. But his son being armed as well implies that there's more to this story than a random "lynch mob".
    Name calling and racial slurs, are out of bounds for most people today, but they don't justify deadly force.

    Edit: Found a back-story article: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/12/nyregion/12fight.html

    http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/12/20...ing/index.html

    Seems the whole thing started when a friend of White's son used his Myspace account to threaten to RAPE a teenage girl who was friends with the boy that got shot.

    But the rape threat that sparked the confrontation between Daniel Cicciaro and Aaron White was not real. Under testimony, Aaron White's friend Michael Longo admitted he logged on to Aaron's MySpace page and sent the threat to the girl as a joke.

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    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
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    All very sketchy, I would file this under "Willing participant" and not self defense...
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    Member Array 45tek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MN2Go View Post
    [url=http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1202458703013&rss=newswire]
    In addition, Eng wrote, White could have called 911 for police assistance, a "clear alternative" to confronting the youths who had gathered outside his home.[/I]
    Bingo....case closed.

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    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Agreed Lewis.
    The race identifier is of no need what so ever...Nor real bearing on the facts.

    I remember this story when it happened and the bottomline is that the dad did the wrong thing.
    Yeah his son was being taunted by the white kids and what all...But rather than go outside, grab his kid and bring him indoors, and dial 911...He went outside, talked smack, went back inside to get his gun and came out shootin'.
    As well the fracas started in the street not on the dudes property. As I recall from the first series of reportings on this in the local papers the fracas then moved to his yard only after he came out the home the second time as armed to which the very stupid kids taunted and challenged the dad too, as clearly armed.

    Sad but stupid. There was a thread here on this when it happened, IIRC.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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    Senior Member Array Lewis128's Avatar
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    Michael Longo should be brought up on charges for SOMETHING. It was his rape threat that sparked the whole incident.
    If it had ended with a fist fight I would think differently, but his "prank" ended with a young man being shot dead. Shouldn't there be some consequence for that?

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    Well, it seems like the jury and the courts came to the correct decision on this case after reading the story and the other back story article posted by Lewis128.

    Nothing more to add.
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

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    Senior Member Array BlueLion's Avatar
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    I also agree with Jang, color does not matter here. Why even make it a part of the title, idiots come in all colors.
    Listen, Think and React.....Nuff Said.....

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    1 stupid plus 1 stupid equals a really big stupid. And I dont think color of the stupid matters.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    Member Array bagged2drag's Avatar
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    Good article to read and a good reminder. Verbal abuse seems to get people in trouble, but no reason for deadly force. Big no no. Thanks for the article!

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    Member Array CplVargas's Avatar
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    Kid deserved to die. Typical liberal NYC.

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    Senior Member Array Lewis128's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    Agreed Lewis.
    The race identifier is of no need what so ever...Nor real bearing on the facts.

    - Janq
    It's a badly overused tactic. It seems to be the defacto, automatic accusation any time there's an altercation.
    I admit, I've known a few racists in my life, but the only time I've EVER heard "the N word" used in anger was two years ago when a gay couple's knock down drag out fight spilled out onto the front lawn as I was coming home from work.
    I signed the lease on a new apt within the week.

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    There has been such a level of weakening our society that it has spilled into things like this. I remember in the 80's (when I was a child) I was taught if someone is making fun of you ignore it because they aren't hurting you. Now people teach their kids that words hurt just as much as physical action. This is the obvious end result to that societal shift because if words hurt as much as physical action then physical action in defense is justified. Not saying this is right but just pointing out the logical end to what people are taught now.

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    White was black and he saw red when kids called his son yellow and then shot a teen that was white and the verdict was black and white and now he'll be wearing an orange jumpsuit in gray-bar institute and will be singing the prison blues.

    Interesting.

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    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CplVargas View Post
    Kid deserved to die. Typical liberal NYC.
    I dunno about that...
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