Good and Bad: More Chicago Justice - Page 2

Good and Bad: More Chicago Justice

This is a discussion on Good and Bad: More Chicago Justice within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by socal2310 Charges weren't brought in the prior cases and I doubt they will be this time either - in spite of the ...

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Thread: Good and Bad: More Chicago Justice

  1. #16
    Member Array MSteve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by socal2310 View Post
    Charges weren't brought in the prior cases and I doubt they will be this time either - in spite of the Chicago Tribune's lamentations.

    Ryan
    I would venture to guess that the local DA is waiting for McDonald v Chicago to play out before bothering with charges. He can always bring the charges later if the Supreme Court upholds the ban. If they don't, he would've wasted time, energy and money on something that would be overturned anyway.
    AlabamaConstitution of 1819: That every citizen has a right to bear arms in defence of himself and the state.
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  2. #17
    Distinguished Member Array jumpwing's Avatar
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    Whether he's charged or not, the problem is that he could be because those laws are still on the books.
    "The flock sleep peaceably in their pasture at night because Sheepdogs stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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  3. #18
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jumpwing View Post
    Whether he's charged or not, the problem is that he could be because those laws are still on the books.
    Not if the law itself is ruled "unconstitutional " he can't be.

    If fact, if they rule that way, anyone who's been convicted under that law can immediately appeal their cases and get them over-turned.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    Wonderfully ironic...the dirtbag was pronounced dead at Our Lady of Resurrection Medical Center...
    I like your sense of humor
    The first rule of a gunfight: "Don't be there !"
    The second rule: "Bring enough gun"

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  5. #20
    Member Array Ricebrnr's Avatar
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    All these Chicagoans are not likely to be charged for the guns because they have a wierdly sensible law where they can not be charged when the gun is "found out" from use in self defense.

    Gun control restrictions snag heroes, but have no effect on criminals

  6. #21
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    I'm wondering if these recent events are either;

    A: Citizens getting fed up being victims, heard about others taking the initiative and are following suit.

    - OR -

    B. The media is focusing more on victims taking action due to the upcoming court case. These types of shootings are not uncommon, no prior media coverage.

    If -A-, then it would appear that the antis would be correct in some respect, blood will be running in the streets...criminal blood.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  7. #22
    Member Array 007BondJames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctsketch View Post
    the jury will probably be instructed to concentrate on the fact that he knowingly was breaking the law before this incident...but I bet it will be a hung jury.
    I am not a Lawer but slept at a Holiday Inn I think the jury can nulify a law by saying that people has the right to defend themself. Lawers on here jump in.
    Hitler once said, “The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerers who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing.”

  8. #23
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiram25 View Post
    Sounds like the citizens of Chicago have done more to clean up the city in a couple weeks than the "gun ban" has done since it was instituted.
    What the "leaders" and sheep simply won't understand is that the gun ban has simply resulted in disarming victims and inciting felons to attack.

    I have yet to hear any such "leader" who is in favor of criminalizing upstanding citizens explain how disarming victims reduces the number of victims. If anything, it has simply paved the way for felons to pump up the volume.

    Chicago residents like the shop owner know the reality: you're got a better chance at survival if your (criminal) leaders haven't taken away your weapons ahead of time.

    Here's to fighting for your survival ... no matter what it costs the felons ... even if it kills them.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
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  9. #24
    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 007BondJames View Post
    I am not a Lawer but slept at a Holiday Inn I think the jury can nulify a law by saying that people has the right to defend themself. Lawers on here jump in.
    I agree...
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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by 007BondJames View Post
    I am not a Lawer but slept at a Holiday Inn I think the jury can nulify a law by saying that people has the right to defend themself. Lawers on here jump in.
    INAL either. But check out "Jury Nullification"

    Such as:

    http://www.fija.org/docs/JG_Jurors_Handbook.pdf

    Jury Nullification: History, questions and answers about nullification, links

    Jury Nullification - Google Search

    http://www.washburnlaw.edu/wlj/46-2/...ter-andrew.pdf


    BTW -- Thomas Jefferson on Jury Nullification:

    "It is left... to the juries, if they think the permanent judges are under any bias whatever in any cause, to take on themselves to judge the law as well as the fact. They never exercise this power but when they suspect partiality in the judges; and by the exercise of this power they have been the firmest bulwarks of English liberty." --Thomas Jefferson to Abbe Arnoux, 1789. ME 7:423, Papers 15:283

    "If the question before [the magistrates] be a question of law only, they decide on it themselves: but if it be of fact, or of fact and law combined, it must be referred to a jury. In the latter case of a combination of law and fact, it is usual for the jurors to decide the fact and to refer the law arising on it to the decision of the judges. But this division of the subject lies with their discretion only. And if the question relate to any point of public liberty, or if it be one of those in which the judges may be suspected of bias, the jury undertake to decide both law and fact. If they be mistaken, a decision against right which is casual only is less dangerous to the state and less afflicting to the loser than one which makes part of a regular and uniform system." --Thomas Jefferson: Notes on Virginia Q.XIV, 1782. ME 2:179

    "The juries [are] our judges of all fact, and of law when they choose it." --Thomas Jefferson to Samuel Kercheval, 1816. ME 15:35

    "We all know that permanent judges acquire an esprit de corps; that, being known, they are liable to be tempted by bribery; that they are misled by favor, by relationship, by a spirit of party, by a devotion to the executive or legislative; that it is better to leave a cause to the decision of cross and pile than to that of a judge biased to one side; and that the opinion of twelve honest jurymen gives still a better hope of right than cross and pile does." --Thomas Jefferson to Abbe Arnoux, 1789. ME 7:423, Papers 15:283
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  11. #26
    Member Array PeterCartwright's Avatar
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    I concur with those who observed that the first two examples cited have not been charged. I suspect Illinois' quirky self-defense exception + the current political/legal circumstances make it unlikely the current proprietor will face such charges. He won't likely, however, ever see his firearm again.

    I would also note the skillful way this new breed of Chicago citizen seems to wield their firearms. Wish "Hiz'oner" was objective enough to appreciate the effectiveness of this crime prevention (or, at least anti-ricidivism) technique.

    PC

  12. #27
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    Juries certainly have an ability to nullify an unjust law (I would go so far as to say duty) and the prosecution would have no recourse. Unfortunately, judges actively work to conceal this right and duty from jurors.

    Most jurors are asked if they are willing to find according to the facts of the case regardless of how they feel about the law. If they answer in the negative, they will be dismissed. This means that in most cases, only jurors who are willing to perjure themselves are going to be in a position to nullify a law and generally only by hanging the jury.

    Ryan
    Those who will not govern their own behavior are slaves waiting for a master; one will surely find them.

  13. #28
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    If enough citizens use guns to defend themselves in Chicago in spite of the gun ban, maybe a repeal of the gun ban will be a fate accompli.
    The first rule of self-defense is to avoid the situation. The second rule is Train and Prepare.

  14. #29
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    I have been on a few juries and once had an epiphany. When in the court room the Judge is GOD. Once in the jury room all 12 jurors are GOD.

  15. #30
    Distinguished Member Array jumpwing's Avatar
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    As I understand it, the word "god" actually means "judge."
    "The flock sleep peaceably in their pasture at night because Sheepdogs stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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