Good: 2 Robbers killed in attempt
This is a discussion on Good: 2 Robbers killed in attempt within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; KGAN CBS 2 :: Cedar Rapids News
WATERLOO - Two men were shot and killed while apparently trying to rob the East Fourth Street Liquor ...
June 16th, 2010 09:53 AM
Good: 2 Robbers killed in attempt
KGAN CBS 2 :: Cedar Rapids News
WATERLOO - Two men were shot and killed while apparently trying to rob the East Fourth Street Liquor Store, 1027 E. Fourth St., early this morning.
Robert Maurice Bolden, 21, of Waterloo, died at the scene of the shooting. Antonio McNeal Sproles, 21, of Waterloo, died a short time later at Allen Hospital.
Although the investigation is continuing, police said they don't foresee filing any charges against the clerk, 65-year-old Johnny Sanders, who opened fire on Bolden and Sproles.
"Right now it appears the shooting was justified," said Capt. Tim Pillack with the Waterloo Police Department.
Shortly before 2 a.m., Waterloo Police responded to a robbery alarm at the store. Officers arrived and found shots had been fired during an apparent robbery, and two people had been shot.
Investigators determined Sproles and Bolden entered the store wearing bandanas covering their faces, Pillack said. One was armed with a .22-caliber rifle and the other had a .22-caliber handgun.
Sanders, who was the lone clerk in the store, was in an office area. When he saw the two come in with guns, he grabbed a revolver that was in the room.
He confronted the robbers and at some point shot them. Neither of the robbers fired their weapons, police said.
Both men were shot in the store, Pillack said.
"One of them made it to the door" before collapsing, Pillack said.
The other fell where he was shot, Pillack said.
Sanders called 911.
He said police don't have any indiction that others were involved in the robbery plan.
The East Fourth Street Liquor Store was the scene of two robberies last year. The establishment was held up in January 2009. On Dec. 29, robbers shot a clerk who was working there during a 1 a.m. heist. The employee, 32-year-old Waqar Ahmad, was shot in the arm. Arrests were made in that robbery.
There also has been a rash of recent robberies in Waterloo and Cedar Falls, including last Friday's armed holdup at Kwik Star on Broadway Street where a clerk was bludgeoned with a pistol.
Police said they aren't aware of any connections between the recent robberies and this morning's holdup
"Life's tough......It's even tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
June 16th, 2010 09:56 AM
Well done... .22s I'd say they were outgunned :p
June 16th, 2010 10:30 AM
June 16th, 2010 10:34 AM
Is it normal for Liqour Store to be open for business at those hours of the morning? The last time that store was robbed was at 1 am.
I don't drink, so excuse my ignorance, but I believe in Texas the Liquor Store have to close by 8 pm. At least they do in my County IIRC.
Good for the Old Guy, one of these days these kind of kids are going to figure out it easier to work for your money.
But these two have already learned that lesson.
It would be interesting to find out if these two were the ones in the last robbery where the clerk was shot.
I'll say it again!
They got awarded the "Prestigious Lifetime Criminal Early Retirement Award" in a private Ceremony and will be presented the Commemorative Marble Plaque with dirt cluster in the presence of their Family in a Public Appreciation Banquet.
What have you done to prepare for the end of civilization as we know it?
June 16th, 2010 11:38 AM
A couple quotes come to mind:
Originally Posted by san antone rr
"Don't mess with an old man..." (No offense to those who are 65+. It's just a phrase.)
"When it's time to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
While I prefer autos for their capacity and ease of reload, this shows that sometimes a lone revolver in the right hands is enough.
June 16th, 2010 11:40 AM
Early closing liquor stores are usually in states where they are run by the state. Otherwise they often stay open until the bars must close.
June 16th, 2010 12:42 PM
Good for the clerk, that he had the mind set to defend himself!
You can educate ignorance, you can't fix stupid
Retired DE Trooper, SA XD40 SC, S&W 2" Airweight
dukalmighty & Pure Kustom Black Ops Pro "Trooper" Holsters, DE CCDW and LEOSA Permits, Vietnam Vet 68-69 Pleiku
June 16th, 2010 01:30 PM
Good on the clerk. The guy is a pretty good shot too.
June 16th, 2010 01:57 PM
On a very serious note, I'd respectfully disagree.
Originally Posted by ctsketch
They had the victim out manned and out gunned by 100%, being 2 vs. 1.
In this case the determining factor of success for the victim is that he had:
1) The element of surprise.
They had no way to know that he would be in the office and able to monitor their entry.
2) The ability to arm himself and in a moment have time to form a plan of reaction.
He got inside their OODA loop...And to that end he was able to change the parameters of their own conditions, which generally causes a momentary stun effect (pause) to which he was clearly able to take further advantage of and catch the second gunman before he even got off a shot to react.
3) He had the mentality to do, or die trying.
Sounds like a simple and should be default item...But it isn't.
Very many people freeze up or even go into a this isn't happening to me right now mode of thought process, and processing. It is normal. I would not think a person to be cowardly for as much. It is part of the vast human condition.
But for what ever reason this man this time at this event was either able to override those thoughts & emotions very quickly and/or he had through other life experiences had such thoughts & emotions reduced and blunted.
While the attackers they might have been shooters by mentality and focus, or not. That will now never be known, but to assume they would not be could very well have been a fatal error on the side of the victim. He did not make such an error.
4) He prepared for the worst, before it happened (!)
The victim had in some manner by some means secured and made available to himself a defensive emergency survival tool...At some time _prior_ to actually needing such a device. This was absolutely critical to his success.
It sounds simple but it ain't. How many times have we read tales of folk being shot or posts by persons here of choosing to leave their gun in their car or at some other off body not at hand storage (rather than carry) location.
Having the means to protect and defend ones self _at hand_ is mission critical.
5) He had a firearm of the right type and caliber.
What is the right type and caliber, exactly?
It is the type that as related to a specific condition of risk exposure is most appropriate ofr the potential task at hand. Such as a long rifle/hunting rifle would clearly be inappropriate here. So would a traditional field/hunting shotgun.
Dude had a handgun/pistol as his tool of choice and that was quite proper for the nature of the conditions.
As to caliber, the right kind is the one that a user can successfully handle and operate to a high level of shooting proficiency as to actually hit a human target in the vitals AND to be able to do so with a follow up shot(s) if and when necessary as in the next immediate moment.
In this case the victim had to engage and shoot two separate threats at ranges where many others under exact same circumstance do miss. People assume that at close range a hit is guaranteed. It ain't, under real world two armed and moving targets you're a half minute of angle from death stress.
The victims firearm was not some overly powered high recoil and thus hard to shoot with any accuracy muchless speed caliber such as .357 Mag or greater. Something better left to very experienced and well trained shooters rather than novices.
As well he did not likely have a mousegun cartridge either such as .22LR, .32ACP or .380 (!) which would struggle to penetrate clothing never mind skin & bone to result in _immediate incapacitation_.
Not I did not say death. The goal is not to kill the target. The goal is to stop the target from being a threat in the immediate. If the threat happens to die, secondarily, at some time as a result of the act to stop the threat as in the immediate...Then well so be it as an unfortunate reality.
This man and this event is IMHO an exemplar toward the above items.
Further it serves to prove that multiple items stated by the gun fearful and antis are not guaranteed conditions..
* Guns in the hands of civilians, as rather than police who are trained, cannot be depended on to save their own life because they simply do not have the right training.
* Guns in the hands of civilians, as rather than police who are trained, cannot be deployed sensibly nor have any place in the workplace.
* Guns in the hands of civilians, as rather than police who are trained, should not be allowed to be possessed outside a residence or shooting range because their is too much risk that a civilian will wind up having their gun taken from them...And used against them.
* Guns in the hands of civilians, as rather than police who are trained, cannot be depended on for shot accuracy by civilians.
* There is no point to having or carrying a gun because the BG already has a gun and will likely have his out first and at the ready.
* You cannot win a gun fight when outnumbered.
* You cannot defeat a man with a rifle when using a handgun.
* You cannot save your own life using a gun. You'll just get yourself killed. Instead dial 911, give yourself up to the threat and comply with their every demand, and/or God won't let anything bad happen to you so simply pray,hope for the best rather than expect/focus on the worst in keeping & carrying guns around.
This story among many others should be, as to my mind, the poster story for this forum as a whole and many others like it.
Again with respect and no animosity intended.
"Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy
"A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing
June 16th, 2010 02:16 PM
No offense taken Janq. Very well stated :D
June 16th, 2010 04:37 PM
Good points all.
Originally Posted by Janq
As well as the other stuff, too.
June 16th, 2010 05:18 PM
Old Guys Rule!
Originally Posted by grady
Vietnam Vets, WELCOME HOME
Crossman 760 BB/Pellet, Daisy Red Ryder, Crossman Wrist Rocket, 14 Steak Knives, 3 Fillet Knives, Rolling Pin-14", Various Hunting Knives, 2 Baseball Bats, 3 Big Dogs and a big American Flag flying in the yard. I have no firearms; Try the next house.
June 16th, 2010 07:12 PM
Eloquent as always Janq. Well said
June 16th, 2010 08:21 PM
Dats my home town! My buddy worked the ambulance who picked 'em up. One COM, and one right between the eyes.
"What does Marcellus Wallace LOOK like?"
June 16th, 2010 08:38 PM
Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid...
Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth
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