10 people indicted for beating man unconscious.

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Thread: 10 people indicted for beating man unconscious.

  1. #1
    Member Array socal2310's Avatar
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    10 people indicted for beating man unconscious.

    If I found myself unarmed, I might or might not fight back against a single assailant. Under no circumstances would I do so if vastly outnumbered like this guy.

    Unfortunately, in this state discretion is left up to individual sheriffs as to whether or not to issue concealed carry permits. In some counties, such as Kern County, concealed carry permits are easily obtained, in others such as Los Angeles County, they are virtually impossible. In Ventura County, where this incident took place, the old sheriff and the new have a policy in place that is in between those two counties and require the applicant demonstrate a compelling need such as transporting large amounts of cash, needing to be in remote areas or being under a specific threat. The bad news is, this man was defenseless against a group of thugs. The good news is, he now fits the criteria for a qualified applicant for a concealed carry permit. Not everyone is lucky enough to survive for a second chance.

    Bear in mind that the city where this occurred is one of the safest for its size in the entire country and while it was getting dark, it wasn't very late.

    10 people indicted in beating of Thousand Oaks man

    By Raul Hernandez
    Posted July 21, 2010 at 3:35 p.m.

    Five adults and five juveniles were indicted today for the severe, gang-related beating of a 22-year-old man in Thousand Oaks in May, a crime that was captured on a camera.

    Named in the indictments handed down by the Ventura County Grand Jury on July 2 are 10 alleged members of Conejo Valley Locos, a violent Thousand Oaks criminal street gang.

    “The grand jury indictment was unsealed and served upon the defendants at this time,” said prosecutor Joann Roth said after today’s court proceeding.

    Named as defendants are Victor Ramon, 16; Gustavo Enrique Bonilla, 17; Jonathan Alinei, 16; Abraham Carpio Alonso, 21; Victor Anthony Lopez, 17, Matthew Thomas Wilkinson, 23, Jelani Villasenor, 17; Edward Joseph Kolodziej, 25; David Alejandro Hernandez, 18 and Jason Schreiber, 25.

    All of the defendants, who are being represented by 10 criminal defense lawyers, pleaded not guilty to the charges. Defendants are being held in jail with bails ranging from $100,000 to $200,000.
    Those who will not govern their own behavior are slaves waiting for a master; one will surely find them.

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Socal,

    Consider that in relation to the area, specific conditions and options at hand...Going hands on may have been the mans only choice even as the odds were figuratively 1K to one.

    : |

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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    Member Array socal2310's Avatar
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    Janq,

    It may not be clear from this article, but ten gang members were present and intimidating him. After determining that he wasn't a member of any rival gang, one demanded money. When he refused, the entire gang (that was present) attacked him. Admittedly, we don't know if he would have escaped the beating if he had given them the money, but given the choice of giving up the money and potentially defusing the situation and refusing and facing the possibility of being beat and robbed anyway, I like my chances better with the former.

    All that said, none of his options were particularly good absent a defensive weapon that might have allowed him to protect himself.

    Ryan
    Those who will not govern their own behavior are slaves waiting for a master; one will surely find them.

  5. #4
    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
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    if they are surrounding you and you are unarmed, I would have tried complying and giving the money and making a run for it, if they are going to attack me anyways...well at least I tried. but they aren't coming out of it unbruised!!!
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  6. #5
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Reason I say what I did Socal is because I've seen this before, multiple times...IRL.

    You don't get set upon in this manner, and allowed to escape unharmed by answering correctly a couple of questions and making a tithe to their community group.
    No jest, being completely serious.

    Not having been there and only knowing what I read; I can though easily see how this would play out. It's all bad for the mark/target.
    Especially considering that the victim was young and male...And very likely knew all of these people he being from the neighborhood and they too. The specific location where this occurred cannot be overlooked as it is significant to the story overall.

    Further you don't get set upon like this for no reason, in such numbers and by such type persons.
    I highly doubt this crime was random in the sense of how folks think about going to an ATM or walking into a gas station robbery in progress.
    Yes they wanted his money. But he likely knew how his 'hood works. Like how many 'hoods and jungles work.
    You die alive and fighting. Or you live a walking dead man with no fight.

    As well giving over your lunch money when asked rarely ever is enough for a bully singular, never mind he and his gang/posse/clique.
    Most often they want you to pay them up front for the secondary beating in the rears that they fully intend to dole out, and/or the follow on strong arm robbery of your clothing, gear and/or life (!) that they have planned for an immediate next step.

    From the outside looking in it could be viewed as simply a give 'em the money dynamic.
    But from inside the circle looking outward toward jackals (sympathetic hangers on) and hyena (active aggressors), to the victim he has a choice to make mentally; Go out like an antelope or go down with pride like a lion.
    The end as calculated will be same, with near certainty.

    Among some neighborhoods and jungles for some of it's inhabitants by position and/or age, there is no choice.
    Hardly nobody likes it, but they do and will accept and respect it. It is what it is. : |

    - Janq has in the past been among both sides of the jungle circle; as Antelope, lion, jackal and hyena
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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    Whatever happend one thing I know, 10-1 means the 10 are cowards! I really hate cowards!
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

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    VIP Member Array mprp's Avatar
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    Yep, isn't it great! Rules in certain areas that make it to where you HAVE to be in a gang to protect yourself. I must say, I would have emptied my mag, reloaded and emptied another one. It would be nice to see those gang signs outlined in white chalk.
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    I would say he had no chance. Usually when a gang sets upon you,your getting a beating no matter what you do. If he pulled out money it wouldnt have been enough or something else would be the excuse. Gang members usually prey on the weak. The man was highly out numbered which made him an easy target for them.And as far as there being more to the story such as they knew him etc., thats not always true. Punk gang members will give random beatings for no reason but to make themselves feel powerful.Sad but it happens all the time. You also say "He should of known the hood" well the guy could have walked down that street 100 times with no incident. That night the punks could of just been looking for someone to prey on that night and unfortunately for him he was the first one they saw.

    Would a gun have changed the outcome?? Hard to say because gang members also carry guns. And out of 10 of them its likely at least one was carrying.

    Just my 02 cents from someone with some experience with gangs.(no I am not a gang member lol)
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    Member Array socal2310's Avatar
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    Know the hood? The gas station is part of a strip mall at the corner of a very busy intersection. Very well lit and not at all a seedy area. This is the city I grew up in, just up the hill from where I live now so I know the location very well. I would generally feel safe there, even after dark (at the time and date it happened, it wasn't even full dark yet).

    Ryan
    Those who will not govern their own behavior are slaves waiting for a master; one will surely find them.

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    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Socal,

    When I say and refer to 'hood I am referring to the environment in which he lives and comes from.
    I am not referring to the specific site location of where a given crime might have occurred.

    Ones environment and life experience by that upbringing is what has most impact on individual action, reaction and overall mindset.
    As to specific site location of any given crime, crime can and does occur anywhere, at any time toward anyone.

    The specific site (gas station) itself may be a safe feeling place.
    The persons though who ran up on the victim had not a care that they were at a well lit busy intersection, not that well lit busy intersections are safe havens from crime in general.
    Criminals are running up on each other and doing drive-by shootings at churches and even outside police stations, that are well lit etc. : |

    My post and point wass toward mindset of the individuals involved, not the location of the crime in specific.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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    Distinguished Member Array Fitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by socal2310 View Post
    Know the hood? The gas station is part of a strip mall at the corner of a very busy intersection. Very well lit and not at all a seedy area. This is the city I grew up in, just up the hill from where I live now so I know the location very well. I would generally feel safe there, even after dark (at the time and date it happened, it wasn't even full dark yet).

    Ryan
    "Just up the hill ...". Up the Conejo Grade to be exact.

    Ryan, I agree, I'd feel safe in that mall even after dark, or at least I would have if this hadn't happened.

    I lived within a couple of blocks of the location for 11 years. Raised kids there. Used to stop at the gas station on the corner to fill up my car on the way to work. My kids used to walk over and go to the theater in the strip mall. That was in the early 1970's.

    We moved to TO in June of 1969. TO was a small town then. It has grown to be over 10 times as big now as it was then. With size and population density come gang problems. It's a community composed mostly of yuppies with lots of debt, huge mortgages, and high cashflow incomes.

    My wife taught school in TO (Waverly and Los Cerritos) for 35 years. She said gang activity was picking up back in the late 1970s and 1980s - when it was mentioned to the city fathers they denied it. It was getting bad when we retired in 2004. The local city fathers continued to deny the existance of gangs, perhaps they still do though it's pretty hard to do that now.

    We moved out of Thousand Oaks in 1994 when our youngest daughter graduated from HS.

    We live in rural PA now and love it.

    FWIW: In the opinion of this 35 year former resident of So. Cal., if there was ever a state where the population needs to be armed it is California. Especially from the middle of the state to the Mexican Border. Southern California - in Ventura/Camarillo, TO/Westlake, Agoura, and definitely in the San Fernando Valley (where I worked in Aerospace for 35 years) is way more violent than the papers let on. So Cal has severe gang violence and it isn't limited to LA and cities along the Mexican border, it's just worse there.

    Fitch

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    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    my hat would be off to the man who could turn that situation into 10 chalk lines...dont let your firearm make you cocky...the best you could hope to do against numbers like that would be deter...because if they decided their numbers and indifference to life in general would protect them you would probably be killed in the process but be able to wound and kill several while you died...

    given the choice it would have to come to using the gun...i dont see compliance as anything good in a gang related situation....but dont fool yourself into a false sense of security and believe you would walk away unscathed because you produced a gun...surrounded by 10 people things happen quickly and if they arent running away you are in for some real hard times....

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    It just goes to show you even if a location is known to be safe it only takes one time to be unsafe. That is the reason we all have carry permits. Ya never know!!
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    So, the question is: You there. You have a CWL and your firearm. Do you attempt to intervene or standby and be a good witness?

    Might be the right time for those couple of spare mags!
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    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Should you intervene, you will most likely be trading places with the original victim.

    Ten to one and a tire iron is ample disparity of force to warrant lethal force in response.

    Sometimes the threat of lethal force will be sufficient, even with gang members, sometimes not.

    IMO part of the strength of a group/gang is being a group. That strength must be severed for the threat of lethal force to be effective. What I mean is that the threat of lethal force must be aimed at one individual, which detaches him from the group strength. This can be effective especially if the one targeted has a position of leadership or authority in the group.

    Should that fail, be prepared for the OK corral.

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