This is a discussion on Tapes from Costco shooting now online within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by mcp1810 Look at the response from the police department. How many ground units? A helicopter? A command post? I don't know about ...
The police should never over-react, and the "Green Beret" factor may have added to it. But, I think the Mgr should be "fried" for doing what it appears he did do.
I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
Chief Justice John Roberts : "I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."
- JanqSep. 22, 2010
Copyright © Las Vegas Review-Journal
Scott ignored police commands, pointed gun, witness says
By CARRI GEER THEVENOT and BRIAN HAYNES
LAS VEGAS REVIEW-JOURNAL
Erik Scott ignored several commands from police officers telling him to "get on the ground" and then pulled out a gun and "aimed it straight at the officer,'' Costco employee Colleen Kullberg testified Wednesday at the Clark County coroner's inquest into Scott's death at the hands of three Las Vegas police officers.
Kullberg said she was one of the last people to leave the store, and emerged in time to hear someone issue the command "get on the ground" several times...
The full story can be found at http://www.lvrj.com/news/coroner-s-i...4.html?ref=934
Well imagine that. Things might not be exactly as the family's attorney hoped they would be. Please don't get me wrong, I don't mean to sound like I am bashing the legal profession. This guy is going to have to earn his money. If things were exactly as portrayed by friends and family at the start, it would have been relatively easy money for him. It no longer looks like the slam dunk many thought it would be.
I have to wonder now, did he know all of this stuff about the deceased when he took the case? Did the family and friends even know?
I am not saying that this definitely clears the officers involved, but it certainly raises questions as to how accurate the initial descriptions we were given were.
Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis
I stand by my statements made from the start, both here and in the prior now closed thread.
If this guy truly was a 'Boy Scout' as folks imagined, simply because 20 yrs. ago he went to the Citadel (!), then from the start there would have been no incident of action singular never mind plural on _his_ part to result in scrutiny by the store personnel (the catalyst/spark)....and ultimately come to his being shot seven times by not one but three police.
As well trying to blame this on a store manager who exaggerated things is a non-starter.
The store manager had nothing to do with dude making the ultimate decision to not follow police commands (a Citadel graduate would/should know better than to not follow commands, immediately)...Followed by attempt to put hand to a gun and unholster it yet again only this time in front of/at police with guns drawn on him.
Had he simply left the store when told to leave, there would have been no story to tell. Had he simply followed police command when told to do so, there would be no dead man.
Items that are known to be a fact:
* Customer in store damaging property
* Customer in store acting furtive [Placing his gun into a backpack off the shelf, whihc on it's own is a major firearm safety violation which a Citadel graduate should well know]
* Customer in store acting irrational [Handling his gun in the store, making comments to manager about his military background...From over a decade ago, as though any of this is relevant to his being told to leave!]
* Customer in store acting belligerent and non-compliant [Yelling at store manager, ranting, refusing to leave, and refusing to leave upon being informed the cops are coming (!)]
* Criminal in store attempting evade capture [He trys to mix in among and walk out with the crowd..But is IDd by store staff at the exit doors just inside the building.]
* Criminal as stopped refuses to comply [He does not follow command to get to the ground, NOW! He responds wit a visual challenge and by standing his ground physically. These are all what police in training refer to as "furtive" actions. With police inaction is itself an action of purpose and intent.]
* Criminal is known with surety to be armed [This alone as being a fact immediately raises the stakes of danger not for him but for responding police! Thus they will treat him as such degree of threat potential.]
* Criminal unholsters firearm as while under direct contact by multiple responding police as focused on him with command to get down, not unholster a sidearm (!)
And now today for the first time in so many words a real and actual witness who was not reporting what they heard as Erick attempted an exit (prior 'witness statements to the media') but rather a witness statement of what was actually seen first person and direct.
* Criminal acting combative and furtive draws his firearm following direct command to simply "Get on the ground".
Boy scouts and rational minded as well as acting people,like those of us here in this thread, do not act like this.
As such that is why we are here at our desks/PCs and are not at local stores acting crazy and criminal with cops at our backs.
Sorry but this is a slam shut case, and when the police do release the video of a man being killed it'll most likely just get to be that much uglier in factual view.
This is to my view and mind yet another case of oh my boy was a good boy...No way he could have done such things, he was setup and somebody else did it.
Just this time the parents happen to not be living in a projects or trailer and they happen to have credit enough to place their own flyers on the fronts of billboards rather than as stapled & taped to trees and streetlight poles.
It seems if there is cover up they are doing quite a job of it. Either they submitted bogus 9-1-1 tapes or they arranged in advance with the loss prevention manager to say Scott pulled a weapon before he walked out of the store and got shot.
Either that or maybe, just maybe it actually did happen the way the cops said it did.
Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis
Man, what a sad way to end a life. I feel bad for the family and everyone involved, including the officers. R.i.p. Erik.
"Everybody's got a plan, 'til they get hit".
It's amazing how problems can be prevented by asking, and letting someone in authority know what's going on. I've checked guns in holsters before, but not without first asking, and either going outside to "clear" the weapon in my vehicle or using a clearing barrel that some of the stores around here provide.
ETA: So if the deceased was opening packages and attempting to see if they would meet his needs, wouldn't it have made sense to ask before doing so?
Last edited by BikerRN; September 23rd, 2010 at 09:08 PM. Reason: edit out quotes from deleted posts
Keep comments free of insults or the thread gets locked.
"In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson
Nemo Me Impune Lacesset
And more testimony info...
Day 2 blog: Officer in Costco shooting: ‘He was a deadly threat with that weapon’
Costco camera failed 2 days before fatal police shooting
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010...ik-scott-day2/- Janq5:19 p.m.
Metro Officer William Mosher, one of the officers involved in the shooting of Erik Scott, testified this afternoon at the coroner's inquest.
Prior to the shooting, Mosher said he had been told over the police radio that Scott was a Green Beret, had been acting erratically, was throwing merchandise around, appeared to be high on narcotics, had a gun and would not leave the store.
Mosher said the fact that Scott was a Green Beret concerned him as he was driving toward the store because he knew Scott would be trained to use small arms and tactics. He said he was also worried because it was a Saturday afternoon and 1,000 people could be at the store.
Mosher said he came to the door of Costco with his gun drawn because of what he had been told about Scott.
Mosher said Scott was pointed out to him by a Costco employee. He said Scott's only words to him were that he had a gun.
Mosher said he saw Scott had bloodshot eyes. He told Scott to show his hands and to put his weapon down twice, but Scott wouldn't comply, he said.
Scott responded by pulling out his gun, Mosher said. Mosher saw the gun being raised in his direction.
"He was a deadly threat with that weapon in his hand," Mosher said.
Mosher said at that point, fearing for his own safety, fearing for the safety of the other officers and fearing for the safety of the crowd, "I fired my weapon at center body mass."
He said he shot twice, then stopped. He said Scott didn't fall immediately. Then he heard the other two officers also shoot...
Unreal. Cops can say whatever they want after the fact, and get away with it."He was a deadly threat with that gun". Wow.
Costco cameras failed 2 days before? How convenient. Not buying it.
He said Scott's only words to him were that he had a gun? Let's see. I'm a legally armed citizen who may or may not have just had words with a store mgr and his security guard. I walk out to 3 officers pointing guns at me. Surely I identify myself as being armed.
Mosher told Scott to show his hands and put his gun down twice. Scott would not comply.
Let's break this down. By Moshers own testimony, Scotts gun was holstered as he exited the store. Thus making Moshers commands conflicting. He could show his hands, and obviously had his arms raised when shot as he was shot in the armpit. In the least, he had one arm raised while he attempted to compmy and relieve himself of his weapon.....or "drop the gun"....AS ORDERED. He could not drop his holstered handgun unless he reached for it and put it down. This is where I believe the fatal mistake was made. I believe Scott, in an attempt to comply to 3 aggitated (Mosher admits to being unnerved before hand simply by hearing Scott was a green beret) officers...yelling conflicting commands...went to disarm himself. Fatal mistake.
Absolute bad shoot. And even a worse coverup.
This all starts with the Costco security guard calling 911 and embellishing the incident inside to make sure he got the police there. Well, he did. And it cost a man his life.
In the aftermath...it's easier to pin the blame on the deceased (dead men tell no tales) as he can't defend himself....rather than to say "Well we overreacted because of the intial information given to us blowing the incident severely out of proportion."
God forbid the truth be told.
Well done LVPD. Yet another bad shoot covered up.
Some people seem fixated on a "cover-up".
God I'm glad this forum has an "Ignore" feature. I think lots of stuff will come out that probably wasn't in the local news, but it may be that the officers were correct in what they did. That of course will go against the pre-conceived notions of some that refuse to look at the evidence and only believe what they want to believe.
To me this bears a striking resemblance to the Rodney King incident. Los Angeles got it right when the Officers were acquited, from what I know.
Some? You can say it..me. LOL You won't hurt my feelings...trust me. ;)
I say what I feel and I say what I believe. If it looks like a duck...well, we all know the rest of that story. If you feel the need to ignore me simply because my opinion varies from yours than by all means...ignore away. Totally your choice.
I prefer to hear different opinions and points of views on a miriad of subjects than ignoring those who didn't see things exactly how I did. What a boring world that would make.
But we can still be forums pals.
As I get older I find that I have less time for the subordinant topics.
One has to sift through the chaff to find the wheat.
Biker...seriously. Have a smoke, take a drink...something. Whatever you partake in to take the edge off. Relax friend. It's a discussion...it's not that big of a deal. Really lol Simmer down a bit. It's just a message board. It's ok not to agree with someone and still be decent about it. No harm, no foul.
Here...I'm sending you some friendship smilies. Let's not argue and make comments personal.