The way of the gun - something wrong here

This is a discussion on The way of the gun - something wrong here within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; I think that there is something wrong with this dude. What do you think? http://detroit.blogs.time.com/2010/0...rss-topstories The Way of The Gun Posted by DARRELL DAWSEY Tuesday, ...

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Thread: The way of the gun - something wrong here

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    VIP Member Array boricua's Avatar
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    The way of the gun - something wrong here

    I think that there is something wrong with this dude. What do you think?

    http://detroit.blogs.time.com/2010/0...rss-topstories

    The Way of The Gun
    Posted by DARRELL DAWSEY Tuesday, August 17, 2010 at 11:00 am
    7 Comments • Related Topics: art and artists, business, crime, suburbs , guns, royal oak, arts beats & eats
    "Gun control means using both hands in my land..."

    — De La Soul

    I got to know guns, and the damage they can do, fairly early in life. I was only about five or six when the best friend of my then-teenage uncle died after being shot in his leg. In my first week of high school, a young man was gunned down near campus during a fight. By the time I graduated 12th grade, I had lost more friends to . 38-caliber tragedies than I cared to count — and the body count kept mounting right on through my college years and beyond. By age 25, I'd had, on two separate occasions, been forced to load bloody, convulsing gunshot victims into cars so that they could be rushed to hospitals. (One guy didn't make it.)

    In spite of all that, I'm a legal gun owner. Pistols, shotguns, rifles — I've had 'em all. I once even flirted with the idea of joining the NRA, and I might have actually done it if I wasn't certain that my donations would be used to help defeat progressive political candidates. And I don't own guns for fun or to prove my devotion to the Second Amendment, either. As harsh as it sounds, if I'm honest about it, I have to admit that I own guns for one primary purpose: To shoot other people. Granted, I'm talking about people who would maim or kill me and my family, but still, other human beings.

    So yeah, I believe guns can help you manage certain threats. But I also believe it's extremely dangerous to rely on guns to help you manage your fear of those threats. A gun isn't some magic force field that will safeguard you from any and all danger. Guns don't make you invincible, just that much more dangerous.

    That's why, when I see gun owners making arguments to openly carry weapons to places like the upcoming Arts, Beats & Eats cultural festival in Royal Oak, I'm left shaking my head. I mean, I know what the law may say, but do you really need a sidearm at an outdoor festival that'll be attended by tens of thousands of people in one of the most granola suburbs in our area? Doesn't Royal Oak have a police department? Are that many metro Detroit gun owners that given over to paranoia?

    Douglas Holloway of Westland said he would leave his gun at home if his safety and that of his family could be guaranteed at the event.

    "I don't think anyone can do that," he told Royal Oak city commissioners. "You can't stop criminals."

    So stay your ass at home then if that's how you feel.

    This isn't about rights, to me. It's about reason. I mean, being able to imagine a threat doesn't make it plausible. Walking to the ATM at night or jogging through a park or pulling into your darkened driveway, you'd be smart to be packing. But strolling among street artists and smiling couples and little kids chowing down on BBQ chicken wings? For this you need a gun bulging from your hip holster? Oh, I'm sure you could concoct some Jack Bauer-esque scenario that would call for you whipping out the Smith & Wesson 1911, but again, how reasonable is that?

    Growing up, I'd always hear the dudes who stayed strapped going on about how "I wish a "gunowner" would..." They had their guns and not only were they willing to use them, they were looking for an excuse to do so. Sure, they may have been random thugs rather than legitimate gun owners, but the motivation was the same as what I sense in this debate over guns at the festival. They were afraid and deluded, desperate to show strength and possessed of unreasonable expectations of how their gun would help them deal with their anxieties. Needless to say, this led to more than a few of the shootings that still scar my memories.

    Think legal gun owners can't fall victim to the same unchecked emotions? Edward Bell was a licensed gun owner. He was 65 years old, a hard-working Detroiter and by all appearances a responsible man. And yet when thrown into the heat of a serious incident in May, a carjacker making off with his ride, Bell didn't act reasonably, intelligently. The thief had already taken his car without harming him. The actual "threat" was gone, speeding away in Bell's SUV. But the fear and the anger, they still lingered. So instead of calling the cops, Bell ran up the block shooting at the carjacker. One of his bullets killed 69-year-old Geraldine Jackson as she made dinner for her family.

    She died because a licensed gun owner lost control and made a serious mistake. It wasn't just that Bell couldn't stop a threat. It's that he let emotions and knee-jerk reactions turn him into one.

    I'm not suggesting that the Arts, Beats & Eats Festival will become a shooting gallery because legal gun owners are openly carrying. But neither do I believe a band of super-crooks will descend on Main Street (yes, that really is the name of one of Royal Oak's big thoroughfares) to rob old ladies of their cotton candy and take children hostage near the face-painting booths.

    All I'm saying is, of the two scenarios, the latter is a risk I think reasonable folks should be willing to take.



    Read more: http://detroit.blogs.time.com/2010/0...#ixzz0wuzfqGqX
    Is he a hypocrite?
    Last edited by HotGuns; August 18th, 2010 at 12:44 AM. Reason: improper speech
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    VIP Member Array shockwave's Avatar
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    Is he a hypocrite?
    No. But I see this as akin to the "should I carry at my wedding?" question.
    "It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."

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    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Merely a threat assessment opinion.

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    VIP Member Array miklcolt45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boricua View Post
    I think that there is something wrong with this dude. What do you think?

    http://detroit.blogs.time.com/2010/0...rss-topstories

    Is he a hypocrite?
    No. He's an idiot.

    Since when are our rights trumped? Mine were given me by my Creator and are unalienable. He can do whatever he wants with his.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliott

    The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
    Albert Einstein

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    Member Array sandman1212's Avatar
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    I am glad that he feels safe enough to leave his guns at home, I for one would carry, now that the ban has been lifted
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    He is a jerk. Unfortunately, those morons often influence other people.
    "The Second Amendment: America's Original Homeland Security"

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    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    A person who's experiences had lead him to blame the guns, rather than the people using them. Typical and stupid. If there were no criminals, we wouldn't have to have lock on our doors either .... so are we blaming the locks ?

    In Canada, I was warned about "gangs" down in certain areas who carry sawed off baseball bats, then will rob people and beat them to death. Every morning..... in the paper there were killings..... a lot with knives, strangulations, etc.

    So, them dang bats and knives the issue ?? You know they could be dangerous. LET's OUTLAW THEM and then the world would be safe ?

    The argument doesn't hold water. If you ask someone those questions when they make these types of arguments, they dont' have a response.
    I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
    Chief Justice John Roberts : "I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."

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    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by miklcolt45 View Post
    No. He's an idiot.

    Since when are our rights trumped? Mine were given me by my Creator and are unalienable. He can do whatever he wants with his.
    You said it much nicer than I could've.

    People like this make me want to vomit. Since he's a "progressive", his words not mine, I hope he progresses his way to non-existence.

    Biker

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    Member Array Deuce130's Avatar
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    I think he's just commenting on the likelihood of threats occurring at certain places. Quite frankly, I share his opinion. When I go to the Destin Seafood Festival, I don't anticipate being held at gunpoint in front of the funnel cake booth. Conversely, making a a milk run at 2330 to a convenience store, my senses are heightened. I realize that others don't think this way, but that's the way I live. I'm not aware of the OC laws in Michigan, but it sounded like he may have been commenting on the need to OC at this particular event. I really don't think his opinion is too far off from that of many on this board, perhaps just expressed a little more bluntly. Either way, agree or disagree, but his opinions aren't that far out there.

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    My problem is simple. Folks talk about the "need" for a firearm. Is there a need for the firearm in the festival? If it's like some of ours, it's unlikely. Lot's of cops walking around, cops in elevated platforms watching the crowd, 95% or more of the folks are there to have a good time. But wait. Why are the cops there? Why did Hickory buy scissor lifts to watch Octoberfest? Because crime at the festival is on the rise, plain and simple. But for me it's even easier than that. The security is within the boundaries of the festival. Where's your car? Like all the other areas in NC that you cannot carry, it's not the establishment that concerns me. It's the parking lot. The cops are not patrolling the parking lots around these things.
    I prefer to live dangerously free than safely caged!

    "Our houses are protected by the good Lord and a gun. And you might meet 'em both if you show up here not welcome son." Josh Thompson "Way Out Here"

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    It sounds like a typical, unthinking piece of pap. Unsurprising.


    So yeah, I believe guns can help you manage certain threats. But I also believe it's extremely dangerous to rely on guns to help you manage your fear of those threats. A gun isn't some magic force field that will safeguard you from any and all danger.
    Good point. A gun can't help you manage fear. But training, preparedness, training, psychology, knowing thyself, more training ... that can help to manage it. And to the extent that such defensive training involves defensive tools of some sort (ie, a firearm, knife, whatever), one could say that increased comfort level and competence with the defensive tool can help manage one's irrational fears. Most certainly, it can help one correctly identify rational fears as distinctly separate from irrational ones.

    Guns don't make you invincible, just that much more dangerous.
    The implication being that it's an either-or type deal? Baloney.

    No, a single tool doesn't make a person invincible. So long as we're human, we won't be. Not ever. But that hardly means there's only one other alternative, that if a person cannot be invincible then that person MUST be more dangerous. What sort of codswallop is that? Can't imagine how badly he failed logic and critical thought while sitting on his grandpappy's knee.

    Training to become competent and more skillful with the handling and use of defensive weaponry makes a person safer, less dangerous. I can understand how a died-in-the-wool anti-gunner would be unable to see that, but it's true. Unless of course that person is a felon in training.

    That's why, when I see gun owners making arguments to openly carry weapons to places like the upcoming Arts, Beats & Eats cultural festival in Royal Oak, I'm left shaking my head.
    Felons can read advertising as well. And when they realize that the area's well-to-do will be bringing their money to play, they realize it'll be good pickings at such a festival. But then, that should be obvious.

    And with increased likelihood of felons being out and about, it only makes sense to take precautions to defend one's family if one of those felons decides to dance.

    I mean, I know what the law may say, but do you really need a sidearm at an outdoor festival that'll be attended by tens of thousands of people in one of the most granola suburbs in our area?
    I don't imagine felons are fearful of "granola" type suburbs. Reality is, tens of thousands of people vacating their homes makes for a large number of homes unoccupied during well-advertised hours. It also makes for lots of marks at the venue, whether for unattended vehicles or people with their heads in the clouds who are unsuspecting of any threat or risk of robbery by felons. The incidence of crimes of opportunity goes up during such "festivals." Speak to the police after such events. Don't take my word for it.

    Doesn't Royal Oak have a police department?
    So what if they do? It's not as though police can stop violent crimes as they are committed, certainly not when police are numbered in the dozens per thousands at such an event. The only way to ensure one stops violence as it occurs is to be able to withstand it as it occurs ... by being armed and capable of defense. Praying one can call for police assistance is great, but it's not likely to bring police to the scene of a budding crime on the instant it's going down.

    Are that many metro Detroit gun owners that given over to paranoia?
    No person who deems being prepared for crimes that do occur in our towns as "paranoia" will ever get the simple fact that preparedness does help, does reduce the risk and likelihood of being taken by such felons. It cannot be paranoia when such crimes exist and occur with the frequency they do. The only thing certain is this: that people aren't thinking clearly if they dare ignore the fact that crime exists, that training and preparedness reduces one's risk of crime, and that such preparedness increases one's likelihood of withstanding and prevailing against such crime.

    Get a clue, bub. It might help you better than having a sneering disregard for the intelligence and rationality of others.

    Here's to hoping you survive crime if it finds you, unarmed and unprepared as you are to do anything about it. Let us know how that works out.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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    VIP Member Array miklcolt45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    You said it much nicer than I could've.

    People like this make me want to vomit. Since he's a "progressive", his words not mine, I hope he progresses his way to non-existence.

    Biker
    +1!

    The problem, as I see it, with many who call themselves 'progressive' is that they are making progress. Things, and the times, they are a'changin'. But, it doesn't matter that you are making good time, if you are headed in the wrong direction. Progress in the wrong direction isn't progress. It's regression.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliott

    The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
    Albert Einstein

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    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
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    He's made his own decision on when and when not to carry. The issue is he's trying to tell everyone else when not to carry, and he's doing it by making other's personal opinions sound crazy
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    This guy is a major Richard Cranium!

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    Sounds to me like another guy with his head in the sand. There are lots of those around. The tone of the article is definitely anti-gun even though he tries to cloak it in the "I own a gun" mentality. I love it when people say "I own a gun but . . . "

    I'm sure the people killed in the Virginia Tech college classroom also felt like they would be safe. People in malls who have been shot never thought that a mall was a dangerous place. The fact of the matter is, we don't carry because we think we are going to a dangerous place. I think if most of us thought we were going to a dangerous place, we'd stay at home. I know I would. I don't place myself in situations where I think I may need to use my gun.

    Preparedness is all about knowing you may need to use your gun when you are in a "safe" place where you would never imagine having to use it. That is the thing that anti's don't seem to understand. They are guided by emotion and fear of a gun rather than logic and an understanding that things may go bad at any time and if you want to survive, you better be prepared.

    I respect the fact that he thinks he doesn't need to carry. As a matter of fact, I'm glad people like him don't carry since I doubt he is prepared to do what's necessary in a bad situation. Everyone needs to know their limits and I'm glad he does. So by all means, don't carry! The sad thing is the anti-gun rhetoric and his statement to
    So stay your ass at home then if that's how you feel.
    The same could be said to him: "If you don't like people exercising their God-given Right to self-defense then stay at home! Why should we be the ones denied our Rights when he is the one with the problem!

    My head, however, is not in the sand and I carry everywhere I go because I know that the unexpected can happen anytime and anywhere! If I was going to a festival, I'd be carrying. Personally, I prefer concealed carry but to each his own.
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