SAD & BAD -- Police look for why vet killed family, self

This is a discussion on SAD & BAD -- Police look for why vet killed family, self within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...SID&SECTION=US MADISON, Wis. (AP) -- An Iraq war veteran who police say shot and killed his pregnant wife and young daughter before turning the gun ...

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Thread: SAD & BAD -- Police look for why vet killed family, self

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    SAD & BAD -- Police look for why vet killed family, self

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    MADISON, Wis. (AP) -- An Iraq war veteran who police say shot and killed his pregnant wife and young daughter before turning the gun on himself left behind no clues to explain what might have prompted the bloodshed, investigators say.
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    That was very, very sad.
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    Distinguished Member Array Tally XD's Avatar
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    Not sure what seems to be going on with our combat vets of today. I see documentaries on tv and some of the young vets just seem to not have their heads screwed on tight from the get go. I see many of the soldiers that came from a life of thuggery and are then put into a situation where they can vent their anger by legally killing people. I am not sure this is a good mix.

    There seems to be an increase in murder and suicides among soldiers lately. What is going on with them?

    And what is happening to a soldiers pride in himself? I personally know several young soldiers who are not at all like the soldiers I grew up knowing.

    I saw a Marine just back from Iraq/Afghanistan on a court show the other day. He was rude to the judge beyond imagination. I would expect better from a Marine regardless of how he felt about being in court.

    Maybe since I was a soldier I hold other soldiers too high in standards? I just figured a soldier should display respect for himself and for others a t all times.
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    Hate to hear it, What a shame..
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tally XD View Post
    ...Maybe since I was a soldier I hold other soldiers too high in standards?.
    Perhaps. Back when I was in, I knew a few thugs that I knew were going to crash and burn. It ticked me off every time I saw them in uniform. It's a highly honorable profession, but not all who do it are honorable.

    In any case, this story is heartbreaking.
    Last edited by WHEC724; August 20th, 2010 at 05:13 PM.
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    Well, if you look at how the military advertises itself to potential recruits...It would seem that a lot of folks join for the job and money and something to do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by n3ss View Post
    Well, if you look at how the military advertises itself to potential recruits...It would seem that a lot of folks join for the job and money and something to do.
    Those look like pretty good reasons to join. What, exactly, do you see wrong with those motives?

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    Distinguished Member Array Tally XD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce130 View Post
    Those look like pretty good reasons to join. What, exactly, do you see wrong with those motives?
    Nothing until it comes time to perform as a soldier and that is when some of these "recruits" fail the test. The military isn't exactly a job, it is a necessity. It is also volunteer and when you sign up you have to remember that you signed up as a soldier, not an employee. A percentage of the recruits either refuse to go to war, or if they do go, they complain about it and even trash the military for sending them. I do think that this percentage is small and the vast majority of recruits at least attempt to perform their duty.

    However, and this is my opinion only, the later generations of soldiers are recruited from a pool of kids who are not prepared to handle military life and/or combat and the result is showing itself in elevated suicides and family murder. I think the ones that have problems coping are the same ones that are more likely to be involved with drugs and crime in civilian life due to a lack of parenting while growing up. The ease of getting into the military, the relatively good money offered, bonuses, paid student loans and a chance to stay out of jail and leave home is tempting to those kids who may not have a life otherwise. Some make the best of this offer and others don't.
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    Maybe the military in general is being too easy on the current crop of armed service members. I was never in the military but I have heard vets say that discipline, values, esprit de corps, etc. are not what they used to be, sort of like society in general. They probably do push the education and skills too much over military service. Not to mention, before 9/11 it had been a long time since we were engaged in a good old fashioned large drawn out shooting conflict. 1975 I believe. People had come to believe in surgical solutions, peacekeeping missions and light losses.

    Right after 9/11 a woman was being interviewed. She said, "The Marines are sending my son to Iraq. He joined to get an education, not go to war!" She was crying and hysterical.
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    Maybe the military in general is being too easy on the current crop of armed service members. I was never in the military but I have heard vets say that discipline, values, esprit de corps, etc. are not what they used to be, sort of like society in general. They probably do push the education and skills too much over military service. Not to mention, before 9/11 it had been a long time since we were engaged in a good old fashioned large drawn out shooting conflict. 1975 I believe. People had come to believe in surgical solutions, peacekeeping missions and light losses.

    Right after 9/11 a woman was being interviewed. She said, "The Marines are sending my son to Iraq. He joined to get an education, not go to war!" She was crying and hysterical.
    Exactly.
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    This is only my opinion, and in no way is the official view of any organization I may be affiliated with. It is also from unscientific study of those I work with. For the most part the folks who just sign up for just college money or to learn a skill seem to be gone. Although most of the folks I know are also in the infantry, so they didn't join to learn a skill anyways. But since 9/11 there seems to be an understanding that you volunteered in a time of war, and you are going to go to that war. A lot of young men (I don't know about ladies, I don't work with any), join knowing and accepting that fact. As it has been forever, young men hear their nation call for them to go to war, and they answer for whatever their private motivations. But I don't know anyone in now who just signed up to learn a trade, or get money, or an education or whatever. Maybe things are different in other MOS's and other service branches, I can only speak from my experience.

    Is there a growing trend in suicides and such in the military? Maybe. Does it happen, yes. Does it happen more than it has in the past, I'm not really sure anyone has the data to say for sure. Does the media report it now for whatever motivations they are currently using, yes. And it is always tragic when it happens, certainly in this case as much as any of them. But I think it has always been an issue. Add into that multiple combat deployments in a COIN environment that make re-adjustment hard (as I am sure it is in kinetic environments as well), and not much time between those deployments (if you get the supposed 2:1 dwell time you are lucky).

    Once again this is just my opinion on the matter.
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    It's nothing specific to "today's soldiers" or the all volunteer military.

    I'm a Vietnam vet and we lost more to suicide after they came home than we did KIA. The first group of team leaders for the Vet Centers (all combat vets with training in either counseling or social work) had a very high rate of suicide.

    I was also a prison administrator for about 12 years, mostly in max security institutions, and noted that an unusual percentage of the inmates in the correct age group were VN vets (though some of these were victims of the discrimination against vets at the time and received far heavier sentences than non-vets with similar crimes).
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckeyeLCPL View Post
    This is only my opinion, and in no way is the official view of any organization I may be affiliated with. It is also from unscientific study of those I work with. For the most part the folks who just sign up for just college money or to learn a skill seem to be gone. Although most of the folks I know are also in the infantry, so they didn't join to learn a skill anyways. But since 9/11 there seems to be an understanding that you volunteered in a time of war, and you are going to go to that war. A lot of young men (I don't know about ladies, I don't work with any), join knowing and accepting that fact. As it has been forever, young men hear their nation call for them to go to war, and they answer for whatever their private motivations. But I don't know anyone in now who just signed up to learn a trade, or get money, or an education or whatever. Maybe things are different in other MOS's and other service branches, I can only speak from my experience.

    Is there a growing trend in suicides and such in the military? Maybe. Does it happen, yes. Does it happen more than it has in the past, I'm not really sure anyone has the data to say for sure. Does the media report it now for whatever motivations they are currently using, yes. And it is always tragic when it happens, certainly in this case as much as any of them. But I think it has always been an issue. Add into that multiple combat deployments in a COIN environment that make re-adjustment hard (as I am sure it is in kinetic environments as well), and not much time between those deployments (if you get the supposed 2:1 dwell time you are lucky).

    Once again this is just my opinion on the matter.
    This is a very real possibility given the nature of the media nowadays.

    Quote Originally Posted by PaxMentis View Post
    It's nothing specific to "today's soldiers" or the all volunteer military.

    I'm a Vietnam vet and we lost more to suicide after they came home than we did KIA. The first group of team leaders for the Vet Centers (all combat vets with training in either counseling or social work) had a very high rate of suicide.

    I was also a prison administrator for about 12 years, mostly in max security institutions, and noted that an unusual percentage of the inmates in the correct age group were VN vets (though some of these were victims of the discrimination against vets at the time and received far heavier sentences than non-vets with similar crimes).
    Very good info and makes a good case against the recent article.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tally XD View Post
    This is a very real possibility given the nature of the media nowadays.
    I read somewhere (can't remember where or who) a comment about the press and the end of support for Nam. It went something like, "Had the press shown a steady stream of details/pictures of American losses and only American losses at Normandy, America would have lost the heart to fight there, too."
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