Bad- local teen shot by police

Bad- local teen shot by police

This is a discussion on Bad- local teen shot by police within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; I'll try to keep this updated as it unfolds. Not much info right now. Some witnesses are saying the LEO's did not ID themselves after ...

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Thread: Bad- local teen shot by police

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array chiefjason's Avatar
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    Bad- local teen shot by police

    I'll try to keep this updated as it unfolds. Not much info right now. Some witnesses are saying the LEO's did not ID themselves after knocking on the door. Not even sure this trailer was the one they needed to respond to. This might get interesting.

    http://www.wbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=13064283

    http://www.wsoctv.com/news/24809223/detail.html

    Moral of the story may be to check a window before going outside armed at night.
    I prefer to live dangerously free than safely caged!

    "Our houses are protected by the good Lord and a gun. And you might meet 'em both if you show up here not welcome son." Josh Thompson "Way Out Here"


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
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    unless they were uniformed...at the point they were all 3 talking on the porch, he knew they were police, identified or not...and pointing a rifle? sounds dumb IMO if not intentional.
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    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Why would someone think to exit their home/residence as into darkness upon hearing their door knocked on?

    Lets say for sake of discussion that the police did not knock and state 'POLICE', or that the persons inside did not hear as much...Due to the noise they were making hence the initiating complaint and reason that the police were there to start (!).

    Why would you not look out a window or through the peephole _first_, if not singularly and ask in response; "Who goes there?!"
    Why would you think to grab a gun (type does not matter here) and at that step outside into darkness toward unknown or unidentified person(s)...And to do what exactly?
    Defend yourself against darkness? Defend yourself against known or expected attackers,in the dark as beyond a relatively secure area?

    It makes no sense to me on the side of the residents actions, which directly lead to him basically getting himself shot.
    Had the persons knocking at the door been bandits meaning to do him harm he'd still have been caught out and jumped/assaulted/shot. This happens weekly and news storys of exact same get posted here monthly.

    The only way to win here is to positively identify who is beyond your door, prior to exiting...As rather than choosing to open your _barrier_ never mind exit at all, even if you do have a gun in hand.

    Do not do this at home. : |

    - Janq
    Last edited by Janq; August 30th, 2010 at 10:18 PM.
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  4. #4
    Member Array vietnamvet66's Avatar
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    Thats just a bad thing all the way around..there will be no winners here.....
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    VIP Member Array chiefjason's Avatar
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    Jang, while I agree I think this may go bad for the PD. If the mom is telling the truth there may be some problems with what happened. But everyone's witness is skewed by what side they are on. That said, the SBI took this case over awfully quickly. And the Chief in Morganton did not quite give I stelar reason for what happened. Seems that we talk alot about folks making their kids out to be good when they likely were not. This seems to be a possible case of a good kid making a very bad mistake. And that mistake being magnified because LEO's were involved. And he ended up paying with his life.
    I prefer to live dangerously free than safely caged!

    "Our houses are protected by the good Lord and a gun. And you might meet 'em both if you show up here not welcome son." Josh Thompson "Way Out Here"

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    Member Array mcgyver210's Avatar
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    At 17 he may not have known to check before going out especially if he isn't a kid that gets in trouble. Not enough info yet for me to have an opinion but if the officers are wrong I would hold them to the highest punishment. I also think there should always be an impartial civilian oversight on a shooting like this.

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    VIP Member Array Guns and more's Avatar
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    I have a simple low cost solution for these kind of events.
    Let's require cops to wear a digital recorder in their pocket at all times. If there is any question over an event, every cop's recorder from the scene will be checked and they will have a real timeline of what went down. (you know, just in case one cops recorder fails at a critical time)
    If the cops have nothing to hide, they should be all for it.
    Airline pilots are constantly being recorded, why not cops?

    Swat teams check their gear before kicking a door in, why not also, "Let's record, and go."?

    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    Do not do this at home. - Janq
    It's a sad day for America when you can't leave your home for fear of being shot............by the police!

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    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    G&M,

    Read the entirety of my post. Not just the end point.
    Had these folk been criminals rather than cops, the same net result would be likely to occur.

    A bigger picture lesson.

    I was taught at single digit age to use the peep hole (if available), look out the windows (when available) and to use a challenge & response manner as from a distance away from the door prior to actually going to touch the handle with intent to open it to who knows whom or what on the other side.
    I'm now teaching and in practice showing (!) same to my kids and they are only aged 4 and 7. Anyone can and should learn this.

    - Janq

    P.S. - Agreed CJ.
    Likely to go bad for the cops _unless_ there is some sort of audio or video to come up showing the cops in a favorable light, and/or the child as being antagonistic.
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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    GM
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    Not much info, but IMO something is not right with that story.
    "The Second Amendment: America's Original Homeland Security"

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    VIP Member Array hogdaddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GM View Post
    Not much info, but IMO something is not right with that story.
    Yes & with the SBI investigating And Cheif not Commenting ; )
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  11. #11
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    Thats a shame for all involved, last thing police want to do is kill a kid in any situation.

  12. #12
    VIP Member Array chiefjason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    and to use a challenge & response manner as from a distance away from the door prior to actually going to touch the handle with intent to open it to who knows whom or what on the other side.
    Just using this as a jumping off point Jang. It seems that the mother is saying that the LEO's did not notify who they were. And that they did not respond to the people in the home asking who they were, per the mom. Also is seems that the kid peeped out the door, just cracking it enough to see out. Then when he did not see anything he stepped onto the porch and the LEO's were basically in the yard, but hidden by the door. I understand not wanting to stand in front of a door. But why put yourself out of sight completely? Seems odd. And trailer porches are sometimes only big enough for one person to stand on and open the door. Then the Chief comes out and says that his officers do not have to identify themselves. Even if this is true, it seems to be incredibly bad policy to knock on someones door in the middle of the night and not announce who you are and what you want if you are LE.

    On a somewhat related note, my neighbor in the trailer beside me had a similar incident a last month. But a different PD. Someone knocked on the door in the middle of the night. If they ID'd themselves it was before he got there. When asked who it was they responded with, "Open the door!" My neighbor told them to get off his porch. And they again told him to open the door. He wracked the slide on the shotgun and told them to get off his porch. They got off immediately and then ID'd themselves as LEO's. Once he could see them he put the gun up and opened the door. My point is, arming yourself to answer a late night knock at the door is not unheard of around here. And if this went down with no aggression from the teen, I don't like the precedent it sets for armed home owners.
    I prefer to live dangerously free than safely caged!

    "Our houses are protected by the good Lord and a gun. And you might meet 'em both if you show up here not welcome son." Josh Thompson "Way Out Here"

  13. #13
    Member Array mcgyver210's Avatar
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    I just tonight had to check outside because my dog started barking at something & motion lights activated. I didn't go out til I checked as much as possible first but I did have a Glock when I went out.

    I always have a gun at my side ready since there are more & more home invasions. Sorry but if you set off lights & other security devices & bang on my door you will be considered hostile.

    Also there have been recent home invasions with the assailants saying they are LEOs so just because you say you are doesn't mean I believe you.

    The kid for his age did nothing wrong IMO based on current info.

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    Member Array Bhamrichard's Avatar
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    Since when do police not have to identify themselves as such? Jumping on the bandwagon here, if someone knocks on my door at midnight my 45 will be very handy. If I don't see officers in full uniform I can see where it could easily go downhill very rapidly.
    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal...

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    Senior Member Array Tala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhamrichard View Post
    Since when do police not have to identify themselves as such? Jumping on the bandwagon here, if someone knocks on my door at midnight my 45 will be very handy. If I don't see officers in full uniform I can see where it could easily go downhill very rapidly.
    While my XD and dogs will be very handy too, if they aren't coming through the door, why go out? If someone knocks that I can't idenfity, but they aren't tearing the place down trying to get in then I'll just sit right here and dial 911. If there are real cops maybe they can get a message to me via the dispatcher? Otherwise, I'm gonna sit here with my gun and wait for the BGs to come inside or the cops to show up outside, whichever happens first. Not really necessary to leave the protection of my house. Too many unknowns out there.
    I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them. -- John Wayne as John B. Books in "The Shootist"

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