Interesting Reading

Interesting Reading

This is a discussion on Interesting Reading within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; As some of you may be aware, I'm not a fan of illegal immigrants. I make no apology for that and care not a whit ...

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  1. #1
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Interesting Reading

    As some of you may be aware, I'm not a fan of illegal immigrants. I make no apology for that and care not a whit the nationality is of any illegal alien. However, most of the illegal aliens I see are of hispanic origin, thus those are the ones I see and deal with on an almost daily basis.

    Here's a link to some interesting reading regarding illegal aliens.

    http://www.usillegalaliens.com/

    If you use the menu on the left side of the screen it will take you to some reading that is downright scary. I'm not posting this as a political thread, but rather to show the criminal element of what happens with porous borders and people willing to support this infestation here in the United States.

    Biker


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Biker,

    Are you a LEO or person specifically tasked by profession to deal with border management/patrol, and if so in which general region?

    Reason I ask is because you stated;
    "...most of the illegal aliens I see are of hispanic origin, thus those are the ones I see and deal with on an almost daily basis."

    An average person who is not a LEO and is not involved with border management/patrol would then have no real means to discern who is illegal as opposed to who is not.
    Illegals as you know come from all over planet Earth including persons who speak clear and crisp English as well as arrive by means other than walking across a border or riding int he back of a disguised truck.
    They include college students here on education visas expired and with no intent to renew them, or leave. Same for foreign workers including Canadians, who look just like Americans, here on a work Visa but they too stay and blend in operating below radar.
    There are hispanic persons from countries like Spain, Portugal and Chile that do not look to be 'Mexican' and have command of English as well as you or I and even without a perceptible accent....Who are here illegally. Same for persons and whole families from Puerto Rico.

    Most average people would not look at a Puerto Rican, Spaniard, Canadian, Englishman, German, Korean, Australian or Japanese college student and think 'Illegal Alien'.
    They would go under radar, and very much do. And these people commit crimes of all manner too, aside from being within our borders unlawfully.

    What one sees or think they see, may not in fact be the entirety of the picture.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
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    most of the illegals I PERSONALLY know are Asian :/
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  4. #4
    Member Array guardmt's Avatar
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    Im with ya Biker, I have noticed a large majortiy, of what I have seen, not saying thats what it is, are hispanic.
    “What we have done for ourselves alone dies with us; what we have done for others and the world remains and is immortal.” Albert Pike

  5. #5
    Member Array Night Flight's Avatar
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    Since I am on the border everything is Hispanic. The crimes are rampant here and most crimes are not from the legal citizens, be it white, black, brown, or red. The illegals are coming across the border and are committing the largest majority of crimes. They live among us but most are not working. Every day my newspaper tells of the illegals doing crimes. Easy money is what the criminals are after and it is easier for an illegal to get easy money over here than in Mexico, reason being that Mexico is a poor country. Mexico citizens either have lots of money or are among the poor and have very little. No in-between. The ones with money cross legally and buy all their commodities, cloths, etc. in our shopping malls, Sam's Clubs, Walmarts. The poor exist over there on what they can. The border areas in Mexico live on tourists dollars that cross over to buy medicines, dental work, cigarettes, have lunch, drink in bars, get haircuts, and buy the alcohol in bottles to take back into the U.S. (Yes, the U.S. taxes every bottle of booze and pack of cigarettes) Most of the crimes are not by the hardworking Hispanics but the criminal elements of Mexico looking for easier pickings. To stop the crimes by illegals just stop their entry into the U.S. Just that simple, but Washington does not want to secure our borders or it would have been done already. I did not write this to create comments, I'm just telling you like it is here in Texas.
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  6. #6
    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    Biker,

    Are you a LEO or person specifically tasked by profession to deal with border management/patrol, and if so in which general region?

    Reason I ask is because you stated;
    "...most of the illegal aliens I see are of hispanic origin, thus those are the ones I see and deal with on an almost daily basis."

    An average person who is not a LEO and is not involved with border management/patrol would then have no real means to discern who is illegal as opposed to who is not.
    Illegals as you know come from all over planet Earth including persons who speak clear and crisp English as well as arrive by means other than walking across a border or riding int he back of a disguised truck.
    They include college students here on education visas expired and with no intent to renew them, or leave. Same for foreign workers including Canadians, who look just like Americans, here on a work Visa but they too stay and blend in operating below radar.
    There are hispanic persons from countries like Spain, Portugal and Chile that do not look to be 'Mexican' and have command of English as well as you or I and even without a perceptible accent....Who are here illegally. Same for persons and whole families from Puerto Rico.

    Most average people would not look at a Puerto Rican, Spaniard, Canadian, Englishman, German, Korean, Australian or Japanese college student and think 'Illegal Alien'.
    They would go under radar, and very much do. And these people commit crimes of all manner too, aside from being within our borders unlawfully.

    What one sees or think they see, may not in fact be the entirety of the picture.

    - Janq
    What one sees or thinks they see,maybe in fact the entirety of the picture.

    Why can't we attempt to say things as they are. To the average citizen their involvement with a illegal is going to be a illegal from south of the border.

    I realize that there are illegals from probably everywhere, but the ones that cause the biggest problems ARE from the south and wheter you chose to believe this or not is not my concern.

  7. #7
    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctsketch View Post
    most of the illegals I PERSONALLY know are Asian :/
    If you have PERSONAL knowledge of illegal activity I certainly hope you have reported it to the proper authorities.

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21bubba View Post
    What one sees or thinks they see,maybe in fact the entirety of the picture.

    Why can't we attempt to say things as they are. To the average citizen their involvement with a illegal is going to be a illegal from south of the border.

    I realize that there are illegals from probably everywhere, but the ones that cause the biggest problems ARE from the south and wheter you chose to believe this or not is not my concern.
    I didn't say anything about not being able to say what one wants to say, be it Biker..or you. :huh:

    As to average citizens, that is completely based on regional location...and what you do for work.
    Further how are you or anyone supposed to know who is legal and is not illegal? They do not wear a card or stamp on their forehead stating 'Illegal'.
    You could sit at a local eatery or bar, on a bus or share a cab with an illegal (driver) and not have the first clue at all that said person is as much. Especially those that speak English functionally. As well to those we might come across who do not speak English well, they very likely could be lawful citizens (!). Myself I grew up among this to this day still experience as much.

    For example I work with a guy (client) who has been here in the US 60 yrs. emigrated during the war. He's 72 as he'd indicated to me last week during a convo about my own recent birthday.
    That dudes English is _difficult_ for most to understand and very well strained by his native tongue accent. Yet and still he's worked his way up and maintained for 40 yrs. a top level mgmnt. position with a very large international company.
    His company has been a client of my company for ten years now. He and I are each others primary POC, and I understand him clearly in spoken word because I've come to know what he means and how he speaks. His written English though is normal like mine or anyone elses. He's originally Lithuanian now living in MD. The US is his fourth and latest country of immigration at that.

    What one sees or think they see may in fact be the entire picture, but as specifically related to illegals in the US...Not so much and the thought that the majority are from Mexico (the south) is an item that would require some manner of evidential support to assert.

    Planet earth is huge, and everybody with less than an ideal living situation wants to immigrate here to the US...Not just Mexicans and those who look hispanic or speak Spanish as a primary tongue.
    Mexico is our border neighbor but not the only one and they are most obvious as related to entry but not at all the only one.
    Their population is though relatively easy to identify by appearance and spoken word, so from that one could get the sense and feeling that they are everywhere...And not notice the illegal Korean shop owner, or the Haitian man who drives their cab, or the Asian woman who serves them a bowl of soup during lunch. Without regard to your concern.

    - Janq

    Edit:
    I'd had a prior scheduled con-call @ 3P with my client as mentioned above.
    Thinking of this thread I thought to ask him again what was his country of birth. He said Armenia.
    It was from there he went to Lithuania and Algiers followed by ending up in the US.
    He went on to note he speaks those languages and French too.
    For most folk he's kind of tough to understand at first but after you get to know him and his manner of speaking it's not bad at all. I talk with him by phone twice weekly. I have no clue if he is an illegal or not, having not had need to view his passport/papers.
    Last edited by Janq; August 31st, 2010 at 05:39 PM.
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  9. #9
    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
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    Don't flatter yourself. My question was rhetorical. I for one see your opinion on things as just that. One person's view.

  10. #10
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Janq,

    You bring up some good points, but facts show that OTM's, that stands for "Other Than Mexican" by the way, are vastly underrepresented when compared to Mexicans that are here illegally.

    Hey, just because there is smoke and flames doesn't mean there is a fire.

    Biker

  11. #11
    Distinguished Member Array SpringerXD's Avatar
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    Good read, Biker. Personally, I support the fence. Four billion to build and about $850 million a year to maintain and patrol? That'll pay for itself within a decade easily. And that's strictly in money and it doesn't even mention the average of 12 Americans who are murdered by illegals every day.

    I have no problem with legal immigration since we're a nation of immigrants somewhere along our ancestral lines, but if someone doesn't have enough respect for American laws in the first place to not come here illegally, then something needs to be done.
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  12. #12
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    We've hashed this all out numerous times before and minds aren't going to be changed.

    My opinion: Janq is absolutely spot on (posts 2 and 8). There is absolutely no way you can determine if someone is here legally or illegally by appearance, dress, apparent social/economic status, job, living condition. It is impossible. Period. Can't be done.

    Moreover, I have earlier posted a citation showing that nearly half of those here illegally arrived legally. They didn't cross as wet-backs or wander the desert. They arrived with a visa and never left when they were supposed to.

    The completely illegal (never held a visa, entered surreptitiously) isn't the cause of our economic problems, and isn't taking jobs Americans want--as the propaganda goes.

    The ones taking jobs Americans want are the folks who came on student visas to study computer science, then got H1B temporary visas and jobs in the computer industries, and never left. Same for engineering and molecular genetics. If you have a profession or an occupation or trade skill, you can blend in. If you have access to money, you can open a business and blend in; e.g., motel, dress shop, tailor.

    Janq wrote: "They do not wear a card or stamp on their forehead stating 'Illegal'."

    Sadly, some here think vigilantes should
    hot-iron an "I" on those they suspect; kinda like "The Scarlet Letter."

    The only people properly trained to determine someone's status is an employee of ICE tasked with that type of assignment, and even they (with vast resources) have improperly deported an estimated 300 US citizens each year. Status isn't an easy determination to make.

    A particularly horrendous incident of mistaken deportation occurred last year when a retarded person who was a US citizen was deported to Mexico.

    All of you who have knee jerk quick and simple solutions, the old saying applies:
    "for every complex problem there is a simple solution, and it is usually wrong."

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21bubba View Post
    Don't flatter yourself. My question was rhetorical. I for one see your opinion on things as just that. One person's view.
    Why are you being rude to me?

    Your first post and this, same.
    My post to Biker had nothing at all to do with you, and was not rude...So why take the tone you have here?

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  14. #14
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    Janq,

    You bring up some good points, but facts show that OTM's, that stands for "Other Than Mexican" by the way, are vastly underrepresented when compared to Mexicans that are here illegally.
    And that I do not know, but I'd be glad to see the data presented.
    I tried to find same among your OP site and admittedly in a quick review (I'm at work) I could not locate specific citation of same.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  15. #15
    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    Why are you being rude to me?

    Your first post and this, same.
    My post to Biker had nothing at all to do with you, and was not rude...So why take the tone you have here?

    - Janq
    Rudeness should not be confused with reality.

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