Ugly: Two CCW holders shoot each other.

Ugly: Two CCW holders shoot each other.

This is a discussion on Ugly: Two CCW holders shoot each other. within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; What makes it really ugly is that Huffingtom post is reporting it... and the logic is flawed. Josh Sugarman's article There are some links, though ...

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Thread: Ugly: Two CCW holders shoot each other.

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Ugly: Two CCW holders shoot each other.

    What makes it really ugly is that Huffingtom post is reporting it... and the logic is flawed.

    Josh Sugarman's article

    There are some links, though that come from the article and it comments that may be of interest one ANTI, one PRO.
    ANTI: V.P.C. Concealed carry killers site
    PRO: Campus Carry List of rebuttals to the antis.

    I provide these links because we also have to win the hearts and minds of the ANTIS who are only anti because they listen to garbage facts from biased/uneducated media sources.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
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    Dan Casey blogged about this of course.
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    Member Array fatcat's Avatar
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    There are bound to be bad apples in every bunch......

    I've been an ATV enthusiast for 20+ years, and I have seen many jerks give ATVers a bad name.... ripping down streets, leaving trash, going off trials and ripping up yards...etc...etc....The vast majority of riders are respectful to others, and nature itself. But those few (maybe 5% ?) have gotten riding areas and trails closed, have gotten riders kicked off private lands, and have in fact changed the laws for ATVers all over America......

    Of course the same 5% of jerks are going to exist in life everywhere, including CCW permit holders..... Our lovely media only pays attention to the scary news, so of course those 5% of jerks and losers get 99% of all the attention from the dopy media morons..... Its not the Demo-Rats or the Republi-Cants we need to attack each other over, its the media that controls EVERYTHING we do..... and in that we almost all agree....

    This "story" should be about the moron who flipped out, not the fact that he was a CCW permit holder.... that fact is incidental and should not drive an entire story.

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array Madcap_Magician's Avatar
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    Josh Sugarmann is one of the leaders of the Violence Policy Center. If you managed to convince HIM of our side, there wouldn't be anyone left to argue with!
    Not my circus, not my monkeys.

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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Got that... (though I did not know it) and had never heard of Casey. My feeling is that the ordinary Joe or Jane CCW needs to be armed with facts when confronted by ordinary Joe or Jane Non CCW (who have heard "somewhere legitimate" that CCW holders are involved in lots of crimes with and without the involvement of the weapon or the permit), wonders why these "Gun Nuts" have to carry guns.

    We could likely never convince "True Believers." But most of us here are not Wayne LaPierre, or Bill Richardson, either. If enough normal, reasonable folks learn that the majority of CCW holders, gun enthusiasts, etc., are normal folks, just like them... then Casey and Sugarmann and their ilk become irrelevant.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    ...We could likely never convince "True Believers."...If enough normal, reasonable folks learn that the majority of CCW holders, gun enthusiasts, etc., are normal folks, just like them... then Casey and Sugarmann and their ilk become irrelevant.
    THIS! ^^

    Conversion of everyone is not going to happen.
    Even conversion of a majority (by population) is not necessary.
    All we need is an understanding by the majority that not everyone feels/sees things same as they do, AND active support by a vocal and active large minority.

    See; Civil rights, womens suffrage, and as among many other historical items the current fight toward non-traditional marriage rights.

    - Janq
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    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctsketch View Post
    Dan Casey blogged about this of course.
    Dan Casey knows the stats (200 out of 6,000,000 CHP holders over the last 5 years) or (over 1,000,000 legal uses of firearms by citizens in self defense per year compared to 12,000 firearm homicides) or (drunk driving stats compared to firearm stats). I've made sure of that over the last year. He has acknowledged that the CHP population has a much lower crime rate than the rest of the population. What he has also admitted is that anti-gun stories and anti-CHP stories get more blog traffic on his blog than anything else. That's why he puts it out there so frequntly and stirs the pot with ridiculous diatribes. He also brags about his blog being the busiest one of the Roanoke Times repeatedly. Unfortunately, I have contributed to his blog count and provided enough debate material to do exactly what he is trying to do. That means he'll continue to do it. Perhaps I should take another approach??? Any suggestions?
    Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
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    Member Array socal2310's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BugDude View Post
    Dan Casey knows the stats...He also brags about his blog being the busiest one of the Roanoke Times repeatedly. Unfortunately, I have contributed to his blog count and provided enough debate material to do exactly what he is trying to do. That means he'll continue to do it. Perhaps I should take another approach??? Any suggestions?
    No, keep doing it. The vast majority of people who frequent such blogs are true believers and the occasional verbal pugilist (such as yourself). There is a better chance of making a TB question him/herself than there is of an impressionable but naive neophyte coming off as anti gun. They (impressionable neophytes) will remember what you said because its different from what everyone else said. That can't be said of most of the anti's whose voices are overwhelmed by noise from their own side. You are only going to get two viewpoints there - those who honestly don't know what to think will (for the most part) remain silent.

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    Those who will not govern their own behavior are slaves waiting for a master; one will surely find them.

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    VIP Member Array chiefjason's Avatar
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    Both face charges? Raising a gun at me would most likely result in me defending myself. I'm sure the arguments were long standing. But I'm not sure I see 2 criminals here. Just sayin.
    I prefer to live dangerously free than safely caged!

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  10. #10
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    "Both men fired at approximately the same time. Webster died at the scene. Ingram died less than a month later from wounds inflicted by Webster."

    Simply an example of a 'self-cleaning' gene pool filter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctsketch View Post
    Dan Casey blogged about this of course.
    Yup!

    See: http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...is-at-it-again

    Or:

    http://blogs.roanoke.com/dancasey/20...ncealed-carry/
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