This is a discussion on Las Vegas Costco shooting ruled justifiable within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; http://www.lvrj.com/news/officer-tes...103943584.html...
Take away lesson - don't point guns at the police.
Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.
I am glad at least this incident got some sunshine.
The victim died because his senses were dulled by morphine (oxycontin?) and Xanax.
He probably thought he would show the police he was handing over his holstered weapon.
What is the lesson (other than the obvious)? When faced with conflicting orders, keep your hands high and get on the ground.
I still think this is a sad case.
I am more convinced that ever that every LEO needs to carry a voice recorder on his person so every command has a record.
Interesting article. The family calls the process broken and the police are covering up, but they submitted some of the questions to be asked and then it's a jury that decides if it was justifiable or not. Then the lawyer goes on to say he has 25 other eyewitnesses that contradict the 59 that the DA had but didn't want to give them the list of names so they wouldn't get "brow beat" by the prosecution. Could of, should of, would of... Sounds like he doesn't have much confidence in his witness statements.
Eriks father, Bill Scott said " the store bears the brunt of responsibility in his son's death."
"This is focused on Metro right now. Metro pulled the trigger," he said. "But Costco was the primary guilty party. Costco killed Erik."
Can anyone explain to me how the heck did Costco kill Erik? Because they called the police? This sounds typical of people looking for money from the deepest pockets they can find. This is a good example of how 'loser pays' could make them think twice about suing them. They will look to settle out of court because in court they may very well lose.
"Confidence is food for the wise man but liquor for the fool"
This sounds typical and exactly same as the many other cases where peoples parents and family remark that their baby couldn't have done this...It wasn't him...It was a setup...It was mistaken identity...He was just turning his life around...He's a good person, really...That's not like him at all!
With respect to the family they are in grief, as are and have been every other family of same past to present.
But at the end of the day facts are facts....And a person is responsible for their own actions singular.
The catalyst for all of this happening falls squarely on to the shoulders of Erik Scott.
He made the choices he'd made in life leading up to this event.
Ignore for a moment the prescription drug abuse and toss out the witness statements toward his demeanor of the _relevant_ recent past just prior to his incident at the Costco, pointing guns at his neighbor and stepping on his dog. while acting aggressive and violent as well as irrational. Ignore all that.
Focus only on the day of at Costco. Nobody at Costco nor of the police told him never mind made him display his firearm in the store, so as to be seen by store staff as being armed...Whihc is against the stores policy.
Nobody told nor made him open store product boxes and mishandle store product whihc also is against store policy, and for that matter most any stores policy. Which is what directly caught attention of store security in thinking that this dude was contemplating an attempt to shoplift items.
Nobody told nor made Erik Scott to become combative and belligerent upon being first asked then secondarily told to leave the store by both security and management, prior to them both dialing 911.
Nobody told nor made Erik Scott stay at Costco either after being informed that the cops were coming, for him (!) as due to his behavior. That right there is in itself a strong clue for a rational thinking and acting person to LEAVE.
Further as to the idea that maybe he was given two conflicting commands by police; "Get to the ground" and "Drop your weapon"...Which very likely occurred in that order, get to the ground first followed by DROP YOUR WEAPON! as one or more of the three officers saw him reach for his gun (!)...Any rational minded thinking person would know that the last thing you do around cops with guns pointed at you is to go touching any guns period. You shoot your hands up and high where they can be seen being far away from any potential weapons. Just as in the article the police note every other CCW related encounter has been like.
But if given a choice of the two as at the exact same time; Then what would a rational thinking not born yesterday person would choose to do? You get to the ground with your hands remaining in the air. That's what you do. You don't go touching your own gun in some maybe attempt to disarm yourself. That is just suicide, as was the result here.
Bottom line at the end of the day Erik Scott killed Erik Scott.
By his own hand as per his own actions following his own very likely unlawfully abused prescription drug addled irrational mindset manner of behavior.
People who carry guns and DO NOT act as such above, do not find them self being shot down...And they are able to shop in a Costco any day of the week without issue (as I have done very many times to date) with no one but themself and God knowing that they are armed.
Because concealed means concealed, acting like a crazy person results in cops being called and when cops say get to the ground they mean GET TO THE GROUND.
At the end of the day Erik Scott made his choices toward living his life, and that is what got him killed as a result.
"Officers William Mosher, Thomas Mendiola and Joshua Stark shot Scott a total of seven times after he ignored commands to get on the ground and raised his Kimber .45-caliber handgun, still in its holster, toward Mosher, according to the officers and several witnesses who testified at the inquest.
A Costco employee had called police to the store that Saturday afternoon because the 38-year-old medical device salesman was acting erratically and wouldn't leave the store when told his gun was not allowed.
...Eyewitness accounts of the incident vary on some points, but a majority of witnesses said they either saw Scott pull a gun or thought he was about to do so when his hand went to his hip. Most also said they heard one officer shouting at Scott to get on the ground." - End of story
Now how long do we have to wait for the civil case? After a "real trial" like the Scott family's lawyer wants perhaps we can put this all behind us.
Sad for the family but sad things happen to people everywhere every day.
Who knows, if family and friends had perhaps done an intervention for the substance abuse Eirk may still be alive today.
Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis
Or at the very least they may have better known that their son was unstable, and not be caught with this episode by surprise.
It does not appear that his family knew Erik Scott all that well as to a current/recent personal life and living degree.
It's also interesting that his GF did not appear at court to make a statement either even as she was a direct witness, to assumedly support the family's claim that Erick was acting in a reasonable and rational mind.
Even shiny seemingly washed people (as opposed to the dirty faced unwashed) do act out, behave wrongly and commit crimes...too.
Contrary to all the oh he went to the Citadel, or what ever school/college, and thus couldn't possibly have behaved badly or mishandled a firearm (!) commentary from folks early in as this story broke.
well said Janq. Erik Scott's addiction killed him. Happens in the inner city every day. No one bats an eye.
That was a well written and well thought out post that I doubt even our most learned colleagues could top.
All I can say I 100% agree with this statement in the article.
"People just expect the police officers to get vindicated," McLetchie said. "Nobody has confidence in the system anymore."
I knew I lost confidence when I started carrying a recorder to protect my self. This is sad since I used to be very Pro LEO long ago.
If I was faced with a similar situation,one thing I'm not gonna do is place my hand anywhere my gun,my hands are straight up fingers spread,even slow movements towards your waist or pocket with a statement,I'm gonna show you I'm unarmed etc. wouldn't be the first time a BG was trying to get the cops off guard and suddenly pull a gun.even if you are legally armed the cops don't care,until they have the situation under control and can then start figuring out who said or who did what
"Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
--Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .
I'll wager this is not even close to over.
Sure sounds like a 'self-inflicted wound' to me...or just the same as...
Never, never handle your weapon when being addressed by LEO's.
The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.
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