This is out of control now: Mexican bandits entered US waters - Page 4

This is out of control now: Mexican bandits entered US waters

This is a discussion on This is out of control now: Mexican bandits entered US waters within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by Hopyard Remember what Colin Powell said about China Shop rules? I don't think I want to own a stake in Mexico, thank ...

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Thread: This is out of control now: Mexican bandits entered US waters

  1. #46
    kpw
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Remember what Colin Powell said about China Shop rules? I don't think I want to own a stake in Mexico, thank you.

    I've had enough and seen enough in my life. I can get it into perspective. The gun, and wanton violence, isn't the solution to this one. One man gets shot going where he shouldn't have and some here want war. Amazing.
    This isn't about just one man and you should know that. Your perspective is just that, yours. How about giving us your plan for ending it?
    "In a republic this rule ought to be observed: that the majority should not have the predominant power." -
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  2. #47
    VIP Member Array Old School's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by kpw View Post
    This isn't about just one man and you should know that. Your perspective is just that, yours. How about giving us your plan for ending it?
    +10
    "Violence is seldom the answer, but when it is the answer it is the only answer".

    "A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves".

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  3. #48
    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
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    I don't see how wanting to protect our country with arms is likened to wanton killing.

    If anything, the wanton destruction hails from the Mexican side. No one wants a hot war, but such an one is inevitable, unfortunately.
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

  4. #49
    Member Array BurgDog's Avatar
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    Mexico and Mexicans is not the problem and any type of armed resistance is futile.

    The problem is the fifth columnists in our own country who want this to happen for their own, mostly venal, purposes and are actively working to subvert any possible effective resistance to the invasion. I'm looking at the people who want cheap, off the books, labor and the people who want votes from US citizens who have a primary allegiance to their own ethnic group.

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    Call me suspicious, but open water, Mexico, no body........I'd check to see if the victim had a large insurance policy........
    If it's true, I'm sure Obama will give the shooters amnesty and a pardon.
    "First gallant South Carolina nobly made the stand."
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  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by zacii View Post
    I don't see how wanting to protect our country with arms is likened to wanton killing.

    If anything, the wanton destruction hails from the Mexican side. No one wants a hot war, but such an one is inevitable, unfortunately.
    Once you say it is inevitable that prophecy becomes a self-fulfilling one. Sorry, I don't want war with Mexico. It would be an horrendously bad thing for us. The cake walk concept won't hold. The cost will come both during and in the aftermath, just as it has in the sandbox.

    Mexico is still one of our 3 largest trading partners. Both economies would be further destroyed by any hot action. There would be utter chaos from San Diego to Brownsville.

    Really bad idea.

    As for solutions, there aren't any right now. Not all problems have solutions. Some things just have to be lived with the best you can.

  7. #52
    kpw
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    As for solutions, there aren't any right now. Not all problems have solutions. Some things just have to be lived with the best you can.
    There are always solutions but you might not like them. Telling people they are just going to have to suck it up and live with an ever-worsening situation isn't a wise answer. More than likely, it will lead to a solution you, and others that think like you, will not like. Give them a real alternative or be prepared to experience the lack of one. That is inevitable.
    "In a republic this rule ought to be observed: that the majority should not have the predominant power." -
    -- Marcus Tullius Cicero

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpw View Post
    There are always solutions but you might not like them. Telling people they are just going to have to suck it up and live with an ever-worsening situation isn't a wise answer. More than likely, it will lead to a solution you, and others that think like you, will not like. Give them a real alternative or be prepared to experience the lack of one. That is inevitable.
    My last word on what has now drifted away from the thread topic--hot war with Mexico would be an horrendous error which will bring economic and social chaos on us. It is the worst possible response to an already difficult problem.

  9. #54
    kpw
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    My last word on what has now drifted away from the thread topic--hot war with Mexico would be an horrendous error which will bring economic and social chaos on us. It is the worst possible response to an already difficult problem.
    That is pure conjecture on your part but the lack of any real action by Mexico's government and our own has already brought ever-worsening economic and social challenges on us. The issue isn't that fuzzy and the solutions are there. Getting our government to act is the problem. There is another problem with another solution needed. Unfortunately, I think that is a much tougher fix than the border issue.
    "In a republic this rule ought to be observed: that the majority should not have the predominant power." -
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  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Key to understanding this is the decision made to cross into the Mexican side of the lake. Apparently the boundary line is reasonably well marked with concrete pillars set along the border line of the Rio Grande before the lake was filled. Or so that is what was reported in our newsy this morning.

    As with lots of other stuff in our lives, for example, wandering the streets/bars after midnight, there are things that sensible people just don't do. Going into Mexico is one of them.
    Hopyard we don't agree on much, but we do on this. When I first heard of the incident, I was POed. Then I read the article with the facts, basically stipulated to by the wife, and it is clear that they were illegal aliens from Colorado in Mexico. Should they have been shot by a cartel, no, but if it was the government approved solution (executed by appropriate government agents) to illegal border crossings, I would not have a problem with it. Assuming, as is widely reported, it was BGs, Mexican authorities should try them for murder. Given that they don't appear to even be interested in looking for the body, I doubt they will take legal action.

    Please do not infer my concurrence with you on this limited issue to connote concurrence with the rest of the responses you have made in this thread - I don't want you thinking I am going soft on ya.
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  11. #56
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    If we sent the full MIGHT of the United States Arsenal to Mexico with NO RULES, NO G Conventions, and NO Obama, I guarantee after 3 months the mexican cartels would be totally annihilated, scrubbed, erased, and obliterated.

    And I mean the FULL NO HOLDING BACK MIGHT, ferocity like all wars combined.

    Send in 90% of our military in one scorched earth wave, clear out all the old rust bucket moth ball bombs, and let loose the full wolves of war.

    Heck might even be over in two weeks.

    Not civilians but target the KNOWN location of the cartels.
    "I believe that the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms must not be infringed if liberty in America is to survive." - Ronald Reagan

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    Quote Originally Posted by tangoseal View Post
    If we sent the full MIGHT of the United States Arsenal to Mexico with NO RULES, NO G Conventions, and NO Obama, I guarantee after 3 months the mexican cartels would be totally annihilated, scrubbed, erased, and obliterated.

    And I mean the FULL NO HOLDING BACK MIGHT, ferocity like all wars combined.

    Send in 90% of our military in one scorched earth wave, clear out all the old rust bucket moth ball bombs, and let loose the full wolves of war.

    Heck might even be over in two weeks.

    Not civilians but target the KNOWN location of the cartels.
    What you are suggesting is impossible. It's not working in Afghanistan or Iraq, why do you suppose it would work in Mexico? Simply put, there's no military solution because there's no enemy to fight. The "Cartels?" And where might those be? Who might those be? You think they would meet us on the open field of battle? Fight back? Show themselves? I understand the desire for action, the need to do something. But focusing on any kind of military action against Mexico is the wrong plan. For the most part (and I mean about 99% of it), the horrific violence is on the Mexican side of the border. For now, this is their problem. I fail to see what a few LGBs or ODA teams can do about the problem at this point.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by warthogdvr View Post
    it all started when clinton got into officie. he signed nasta treaty with mexico. it allows mexicans to work here and return back to mexico in evening time. we did not really want to cause bad feeling with mexico. now look at the state of affairs down in the desert states. they have no choice but to live by what the democrats got to say. the border needs to not be totally sealed off, just say Ha if you can not take care
    of your affairs we will take apporiate action. like shoot on site for tresspassing from mexico to us property. no questions asked none given. the drug boys might see the lite at end of tunnel. i do not say shoot on site but if things do not improve than straihgten the law where if caught you will be taken out and thrown over the fence into chicken barbwire (concenta wire). they only cut one time, no more. we have do something about this problem, before it comes across the border and gets seriously connected.
    Interesting take from a "Warthogdvr." And what would you and your A-10 do? Any thoughts? Your profile says you're a "fighter jock" who's deployed worldwide. I'm sure you've got some experience in fighting insurgencies, then. What tactics would you employ? And, while we're at it, where and when did you get your commission? What squadron are you in? Where and when did you got to UPT, where and when did you go to RTU, and where and when were you deployed? I'm genuinely curious. I've got quite a few buds that fly A-10s, so I'm sure we know some of the same people.

  14. #59
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    Just because some may not like the solution does not mean that it's not an effective solution.

    Those that say there is no solution, why not try mine? It can't be any worse than your non-solution. FWIW, if this were the resolution to deal with this issue, and authorized to do so, I would stand on the front lines and do my part. I will do that because I believe it is the right thing to do.

    Biker

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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    Just because some may not like the solution does not mean that it's not an effective solution.

    Those that say there is no solution, why not try mine? It can't be any worse than your non-solution. FWIW, if this were the resolution to deal with this issue, and authorized to do so, I would stand on the front lines and do my part. I will do that because I believe it is the right thing to do.

    Biker
    When your only tool is a hammer....

    We can't go and invade Mexico. There are so many reasons why that it would be useless talking about it. And, if you feel so strongly about serving your country, head on down to the recruiter. There's work to be done, just not on the Mexican border.

    Here's some of my solutions. Solutions that won't cause the deaths of innocent Mexicans and US Servicemen.

    1) Secure the border. Make use of local law enforcement, National Guard Bureau, US mil ISR capabilities, US Border Patrol, etc. I fully realize the current administration isn't committed to this course of action at the moment.

    2) Legalize marijuana. See other threads on this point. I know you disagree with it, but we're trying to come out ahead here. Frankly, I'd rather legalize dope than send in the Army.

    3) Create a path to citizenship for those illegals already here. I don't really like this idea, but it's more feasible than deporting 12 million illegals. Add in the complications from anchor babies and the whole thing is a mess. This cannot happen before #1 happens.

    4) Get tough with Mexican politicians. Push back against all this "Blame America" crap coming from those idiots. Call a spade a spade.

    5) Aid Mexico in their fight. Since Mexican marines are fighting the cartels, provide FID (Foreign Internal Defense) support. Send Green Berets, CIA, DoS, FBI support down there to train and advise Mexican LE in the fight. Provide intel and recon support as well. If it gets a little dirty, that's OK.

    6) Don't make too big of a deal out of this just yet. I don't think (my humble opinion only) we have reached crisis stage just yet. Those on the border may disagree, I'm not in their shoes. One or two posters on DC.com can't speak for everyone on the border. Until then, it's not worth committing US combat troops. This is a political issue at the moment. If our elected leaders can't fix the problem, they shouldn't simply send in the troops to shoot up the joint and fix the problem.

    7) Disregarding all of the above, A MILITARY SOLUTION WILL NOT WORK. Take that to the bank.

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