This is out of control now: Mexican bandits entered US waters - Page 6

This is out of control now: Mexican bandits entered US waters

This is a discussion on This is out of control now: Mexican bandits entered US waters within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by tangoseal It is rumored on Fox News today that this story might be made up. Officials, I assume govt., was questioning the ...

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  1. #76
    kpw
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    Quote Originally Posted by tangoseal View Post
    It is rumored on Fox News today that this story might be made up.

    Officials, I assume govt., was questioning the story after its all said and done.

    Could this be spousal murder with a profoundly original cover up for a change, or could she be telling the truth? We'll soon find out! Stay tuned to Channel Defensive Carry for the next episode!
    Last I read, there was a man that helped her onto shore that witnessed the boats chasing her.
    "In a republic this rule ought to be observed: that the majority should not have the predominant power." -
    -- Marcus Tullius Cicero


  2. #77
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    From the United States Code, TITLE 8 > CHAPTER 12 > SUBCHAPTER II > Part II > 1185
    (b) Citizens
    Except as otherwise provided by the President and subject to such limitations and exceptions as the President may authorize and prescribe, it shall be unlawful for any citizen of the United States to depart from or enter, or attempt to depart from or enter, the United States unless he bears a valid United States passport.
    Hmmmmmm....... Yes, we are free to leave the country as long as we have the proper papers.
    And if we violate federal laws on border security, whose job is it to enforce that law? Do we know if this couple had their passports or other WHTI acceptable documents with them? It seems the exemptions from 22 CFR53.2 don't count anymore as now passports are required for U.S. citizens travelling to Mexico (excluding the "border zone") and are required for re-entry to the U.S.
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  3. #78
    New Member Array 10mm DW's Avatar
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    I have lived and worked in south Texas all my life. I would like for all of you that think we should all be more tollerant and make excuses in an atempt to justify what is happening on our borders come on down see for yourselves. This is not the place for this discussion. I will say I like the 2 skidoos, 2 seals and a blackhawk would be a good start. Then carpet bombing!

  4. #79
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10mm DW View Post
    I have lived and worked in south Texas all my life. I would like for all of you that think we should all be more tollerant and make excuses in an atempt to justify what is happening on our borders come on down see for yourselves. This is not the place for this discussion. I will say I like the 2 skidoos, 2 seals and a blackhawk would be a good start. Then carpet bombing!
    Isn't it funny how those of us that live here are calling for the same sort of action, yet the worry warts and apologist have grave concerns about the situation?

    Biker

  5. #80
    Distinguished Member Array tangoseal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    From the United States Code, TITLE 8 > CHAPTER 12 > SUBCHAPTER II > Part II > 1185

    Hmmmmmm....... Yes, we are free to leave the country as long as we have the proper papers.
    And if we violate federal laws on border security, whose job is it to enforce that law? Do we know if this couple had their passports or other WHTI acceptable documents with them? It seems the exemptions from 22 CFR53.2 don't count anymore as now passports are required for U.S. citizens travelling to Mexico (excluding the "border zone") and are required for re-entry to the U.S.
    That law is written to prevent you from getting hemmed up in some whack job country. It isnt about freedom as much as it is about ensuring that you are not locked away with no key for the remainder of your life in djibouti or some armpit country.

    I am sure that many people are not aware of this law and it is probably NEVER enforced. To be honest I dont like it but I can see some cling to logic. Is it constitutional... not written but it doesnt seem to go against our documents.
    "I believe that the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms must not be infringed if liberty in America is to survive." - Ronald Reagan

  6. #81
    Senior Member Array Pure Kustom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    Isn't it funny how those of us that live here are calling for the same sort of action, yet the worry warts and apologist have grave concerns about the situation?

    Biker
    worry warts? apologist? Oh you mean the liberal crybabies..............I know who they are. They're easy to spot on boards of real Americans that love this country.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by tangoseal View Post
    That law is written to prevent you from getting hemmed up in some whack job country. It isnt about freedom as much as it is about ensuring that you are not locked away with no key for the remainder of your life in djibouti or some armpit country.

    I am sure that many people are not aware of this law and it is probably NEVER enforced. To be honest I dont like it but I can see some cling to logic. Is it constitutional... not written but it doesnt seem to go against our documents.
    Indeed, a passport is ultimately for our protection. It isn't about keeping us home or keeping us from traveling or keeping us from leaving.

    This is what is written on it:

    "The secretary of state of the United States of America hereby requests all whom it may concern to permit the citizen/national of the United States named herein to pass without delay or hindrance and in case of need to give all lawful aid and protection."

    In reality that doesn't mean much in many places and situations but that's a different issue.

  8. #83
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Indeed, a passport is ultimately for our protection. It isn't about keeping us home or keeping us from traveling or keeping us from leaving.

    This is what is written on it:

    "The secretary of state of the United States of America hereby requests all whom it may concern to permit the citizen/national of the United States named herein to pass without delay or hindrance and in case of need to give all lawful aid and protection."

    In reality that doesn't mean much in many places and situations but that's a different issue.
    But the fact remains that it is a violation of Federal law to even attempt to leave the country without one, or a similarly government issued and approved alternative. And there is nothing in that language on the passport to indicate that "all whom it may concern" is not meant to include American border security officers.
    All it means is that the bearer has the permission of the United States Government to travel outside our national borders.
    Proper papers.....
    Now if CBP or ICE or someone else had been there enforcing the laws regarding border crossings, or there had been a fence strung between the pylons marking the border, the dead guy and his wife might never have crossed the border to arrive at the scene of the crime.
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  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    But the fact remains that it is a violation of Federal law to even attempt to leave the country without one, or a similarly government issued and approved alternative. And there is nothing in that language on the passport to indicate that "all whom it may concern" is not meant to include American border security officers.
    All it means is that the bearer has the permission of the United States Government to travel outside our national borders.
    Proper papers.....
    Now if CBP or ICE or someone else had been there enforcing the laws regarding border crossings, or there had been a fence strung between the pylons marking the border, the dead guy and his wife might never have crossed the border to arrive at the scene of the crime.
    I assure you, you would not like it if there was someone checking your papers on the way out. As far as I know it isn't done other than by airline personnel, and they are primarily concerned with having to transport you back if the destination country won't let you in sans passport.

    I'd like to hear from Agave, and from others who work or worked for ICE or have similar backgrounds, and can respond to this in an authoritative manner.

    Uncle isn't in the habit of not enforcing laws it is entitled to enforce. There is a reason why we don't do what many other countries do, "passport control" at the exits. Perhaps you are misconstruing the law or taking it out of context. I don't know. I do know that I have left the country many times without a passport (before 9/11) and have left with a passport for Europe and Asia, and no one but the airline ever checks. It would be quite impractical to try to control folks leaving the US along either of our very very long borders.

    BTW, leaving the US is quite a different (and easier) thing than leaving Australia or New Zealand for example. There, the passports are examined by officials before you even get to security screening. The same happens in Amsterdam.

  10. #85
    Distinguished Member Array skysoldier29's Avatar
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    Send in a brigade from the 82nd Airborne Division and we will go fix this problem.

  11. #86
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    Exiting the country in checking papers is well known to be done by land at our borders into Canada and Mexico.

    As water entry/exit is concerned that too is respected and monitored same, this incident is not the first to make national news attention in recent years as related to nationals among watercraft.

    The CANPASS - Private Boats program allows CANPASS permit holders who wish to enter Canada aboard private boats from the United States to receive pre-authorized customs clearance.
    Delivered by: Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA)
    http://www.servicecanada.gc.ca/eng/g...te_boats.shtml

    How Secure Is The Border?
    Patrolling the great wide open where the U.S. meets Canada
    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/...in512681.shtml

    Border Crossing Information for Boaters
    http://www.tijuana.com/boatcrossing/index.html

    Mexican Customs Service
    http://www.aduanas.sat.gob.mx
    http://www.sat.gob.mx/sitio_internet...nticorrupcion/

    In todays news update...
    "Tiffany Hartley, 29, said she and her husband dismissed warnings about crossing into the Mexican side of the lake so they could take pictures of a historic church. She said it had been some months since they had heard reports of pirates being on the lake.

    While they were making their way back to the U.S. border, they were approached by three boats of fully armed pirates, she said.

    "David and I were racing back to the U.S., and they started shooting," she told "Good Morning America.

    ...The state of Texas had warned boaters and fisherman as long ago as April to stay away from the Mexican side of the lake.

    ...Texas' Zapata County Sheriff Sigifredo Gonzalez said. "The lake is not secure, the border is not secure because the incident that I dreaded the most has, in fact, happened. We cannot go to Mexico, we cannot recover that body, we cannot conduct an investigation, we have to tell the family we can't do anything about it."

    Source - http://abcnews.go.com/US/david-hartl...ry?id=11808897
    As I'd said to start these people caused their own problems, by choice.
    The US State Dept. has had warnings for a couple of _years_ now about US nationals traveling into Mexico and advising against it, we have had threads on this in the recent past back to this past spring providing just this information. Never mind that as reported widely there had been statements by local US authorities to stay inside of the US border on that lake. Just because you see no fence does not at all mean it's okay to trespass onto anothers land....Never mind cross into another countrys border without permission (!), even if you do happen to have a passport of some sort on your person.

    Foreign nationals come to the US across our borders as _not_ through border stations by land, water and air yet I don't see nor hear of anyone including here supporting amnesty for those persons. Nationals from Mexico, Cuba (!), criminals from Canada (border crossing in itself without permission is a govt. crime in the US as well as Canada and Mexico!) and from the world over including little private watercraft and really big commercial ones. There is no difference.

    If this story had been one of two Mexcians attempting to enter the US only to turn around as 'repelled' by US _criminal acting_ non-LEOs that fired upon them from within US borders and killed one, there would be support and celebration of same with calls for _more_ by folk here and very much else where.

    You cannot have it both ways...And it does not work both ways among any country.
    Hence national border rules & regs and the passport system to start with as enforced to varying fence & gate degrees most everywhere. Again this is nothing new.

    This event is unfortunate but seriously US nationals get caught up in criminal activity including shootings there often, and find themselves killed as well.
    You got to Mexico not looking Mexican or being crime world aligned and not at some manner of specific travel reseort, you takes your chances. This couple knew this to start and gambled that all would be okay, per the surviving wifes own words. They came up snake eyes. They are not the first nor will they be the last.

    America has a lot to offer including very many waterways and old ruins as well as churches to take pics of. Stay in America.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  12. #87
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post

    Uncle isn't in the habit of not enforcing laws it is entitled to enforce.
    So do you expect the feds to prosecute the widow?
    From the Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act of 2004:
    118 STAT. 3824 PUBLIC LAW 108–458—DEC. 17, 2004
    (2) the President may not exercise discretion under section
    215(b) of such Act (8 U.S.C. 1185(b)) to waive documentary
    requirements for United States citizens departing from or
    entering, or attempting to depart from or enter, the United
    States
    except—
    (A) where the Secretary of Homeland Security determines
    that the alternative documentation that is the basis
    for the waiver of the documentary requirement is sufficient
    to denote identity and citizenship;
    (B) in the case of an unforeseen emergency in individual
    cases; or
    (C) in the case of humanitarian or national interest
    reasons in individual cases.
    So basically we have here two criminals who violated the territorial integrity of a sovereign nation and one of them was killed (allegedly) by a local. If they had stayed in the U.S. or if either government involved had been serious about enforcing their laws in that area it might all have been avoided.
    Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis

  13. #88
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    Uncle isn't in the habit of not enforcing laws it is entitled to enforce.
    I will assume that is misinformation on your part, as otherwise it would be a bald faced lie.

    Selective enforcement and discouraging enforcement of certain laws has been the "norm" for quite some time from Uncle Sugar.

    Biker

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    So do you expect the feds to prosecute the widow?
    From the Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act of 2004:
    No, I don't, but you seem to be making the point that they could or should.


    So basically we have here two criminals who violated the territorial integrity of a sovereign nation and one of them was killed (allegedly) by a local. If they had stayed in the U.S. or if either government involved had been serious about enforcing their laws in that area it might all have been avoided.
    Well, all I can speak to is personal experience traveling. I'd like to hear from folks who travel from for example Detroit to Windsor. I know that in the past, but pre-2004, there was no check whatsoever on departures. The first border control point one encountered was in Windsor.

    On flying from Honolulu to New Zealand, the airline checks the passport, not CBP or other US Officials. I checked in at the airline counter in the typical manner, and I did not need to show my passport to go through TSA security, my state ID sufficed. The airline not CBP checked the passport again at the gate. This is precisely how things went also when I traveled to Amsterdam.

    In contrast, when you leave other countries, uniformed officials do the passport checks for those exiting the country.

    Now, the point of contention here raised by MCP 1810 was his assertion that we are not free to leave--which was a counter to my comment that we are free to leave and that the people involved in the incident were free to leave, and to return. On that lake apparently that is the norm.

    The code he posted appears to back him up but isn't consistent with my travel experiences.

  15. #90
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Just because it is the law does not mean the government is enforcing it. It is also possible that DHS has an arrangement with the airlines that no tickets are issued unless the documents are presented.
    From the CBP web page:
    http://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/deta...ntry/related/1
    If you are traveling in the Western Hemisphere (Canada, Mexico, Caribbean, Central and South America):

    Air Travel: All U.S. citizens departing from or entering the United States from within the Western Hemisphere by air are required to present a valid passport, NEXUS card (if utilizing a NEXUS kiosk when departing from a designated Canadian airport). Merchant Mariner Document (for members of the U.S. armed forces traveling on official orders.) Note that children are also required to present their own passport when traveling by air.
    The part about land and sea travel on this page does not specifically state you must have a passport to leave the U.S. but does state you must have WHTI compliant documents to return to the U.S.
    Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis

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