Montana Honor Student Faces Expulsion for Leaving Hunting Rifle in Car at School

This is a discussion on Montana Honor Student Faces Expulsion for Leaving Hunting Rifle in Car at School within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; She would have been treated much differently in our school, even with laws, common sense MUST prevail....

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Thread: Montana Honor Student Faces Expulsion for Leaving Hunting Rifle in Car at School

  1. #31
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    She would have been treated much differently in our school, even with laws, common sense MUST prevail.
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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
    ... well due to her good intentions she is now facing expulsion.
    Well, you know what they say. "The road to Hell..."

  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xader View Post
    Well, you know what they say. "The road to Hell..."
    is paved with good intentions....

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    This kind of scolding is detrimental to education. It nails to the cross those who step up and omit mistakes. Also, it drives people to hide stuff that they need guidance on. Instead of this being front page news it should've been a teaching opportunity.

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    A very long time ago my son brought a pocket knife to school accidentally, realized he had it with him after he got there, and spent the rest of the day terrified that somehow he would be found out. He told me as soon as he got home from school. Needless to say he didn't pay a lot of attention to the lessons that day.

    Lucky for him he didn't do "the right thing" and go tell a teacher and try to turn it in.
    I was very pleased that he had no fear about telling me. I would certainly have been really really angry with the school, not him, if they made a big deal about it. My reaction to him, FWIW, was just please try to be more careful so it doesn't happen again.

    Again, as I've mentioned here many times, I distinctly recall playing with knives at school. During recess we boys would go across the street from the school to a vacant lot and have throwing contests. I don't recall anyone getting hurt and I know that the teachers were aware of what was going on. It was after all, just boys playing with boy stuff. (As well, possibly the knives would have been illegal by today's 5.5 inch or 3.5 inch rule...I need to go to the other room and measure one of them I still have.)

    So yes, to the participant here who asked if I wanted to go back 40 years. Make that more like 50-60. At least the teachers sort of cared, academic subjects were appropriately covered. and the principal would give some respect to a parent's wishes regarding their offspring.

  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    Big Stick,
    I could not agree more with your post.
    +2

    During my HS years we brought our shotguns to school in the trunks of our cars so that we could go hunting after school. No it was not a crime or against school policy and no they were not flintlocks. This was in the early 60's and believe it or not it was in Maryland. My how things have changed.
    "Violence is seldom the answer, but when it is the answer it is the only answer".

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    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Anybody else remember that knife game? You wouild throw and try to stick your knife a ways outside the other guys foot, then he would have to split to reach it. Then it was his turn, etc, until somebody gave up or could not make the split.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Again, as I've mentioned here many times, I distinctly recall playing with knives at school. During recess we boys would go across the street from the school to a vacant lot and have throwing contests. I don't recall anyone getting hurt and I know that the teachers were aware of what was going on. It was after all, just boys playing with boy stuff. (As well, possibly the knives would have been illegal by today's 5.5 inch or 3.5 inch rule...I need to go to the other room and measure one of them I still have.)
    I was doing this in the 80's. Not throwing them but I had a big Swiss Army knife and and one of those "Rambo" survival knives that I brought in more than a few times to show my buddies. No one ever batted an eye, just as long as we didn't play with them during class. And this was a private Catholic elementary school.

    I couldn't even bring something like that into the office building these days as it might scare someone. Heck some people get uptight with my folder.

  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    Anybody else remember that knife game? You wouild throw and try to stick your knife a ways outside the other guys foot, then he would have to split to reach it. Then it was his turn, etc, until somebody gave up or could not make the split.
    Yeah you old fart I remember it well. LOL ..... Every boy who was a boy carried a pocket knife and no one ever complained. Lord knows I miss those days.
    "Violence is seldom the answer, but when it is the answer it is the only answer".

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  11. #40
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    I think it is interesting that in our society kids with firearms locked in their cars are thrown out of schools, little old ladies are felt up in airports, yet there are 20 million + people who have supposedly broken the law by getting into this country and no one seems to care. We have become twisted.

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    Mumbly Peg. The knife game was callled Mumbly Peg.

    And YES we have become twisted. We have a President that wont salute the flag, cancels the National Day of Prayer so as to not offend anyone, yet has over 50,000 Mulsims celebrate the end of Ramdan at the Whitehouse. We have combat veterans being arrested for flying flags in their neighborhoods, American citizens being kidnapped and murdered by Mexican thugs on our own soil, children being arrested for taking plastic knives to school to cut their fruit with and a host of other injustices that occure here in this country on a daily basis.

    Think its bad now? Wait until this current generation of cannon fodder types that can barely read or write when they graduate from highschool inherits the society that we have given them. Its about over, you'd better enjoy it while you can.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    For many things, ...
    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    How bout we punish those...
    Quote Originally Posted by BigStick View Post
    Being proactive is the intent...
    For the record, I don't actually disagree with any of your posts. I think it's a shame she is going through what she is going through. It sounds like she is a good kid and her mistake was an honest one. I do hope that the school board takes a reasonable approach when deciding her fate.

    I am going to continue to play devil's advocate since I think that as our society evolves, we have to as well. You can forget going back to the good old days, cause it ain't gonna happen.

    I agree we are wussifying our children with all the "self esteem" rules these days. I also agree that we should let them feel some of the reality of life while they are young, otherwise they won't have a clue how to deal with the actual unfairness of the adult world. All good in my book, but it doesn't change the fact that there are thousands of child molesters loose in our society today. You're gambling with your child's future if you don't make allowances for that. With the evolution of the internet, kids aren't even safe in their own homes anymore... You absolutely must realize that the rules that applied to your day or my day, don't apply any more. Airline travel isn't that much different, September 11, 2001 changed all that for us for good. Let a dozen more terrorists onto another 4 airplanes and we'll all be sitting naked and strapped down in airliners. Don't like the security 'advancements' we are forced to deal with? Fine, don't spend any of your dollars on air travel.

    Sure punish the criminals to the fullest extent. Don't give 'em the opportunity to get out and do it all over again. I'm totally with you. Heck, I'm from Texas and I think they don't execute enough criminals every year! Yeah there are some jacked up kids now days. The internet teaches 'em how to make flippin' bombs... Video games and TV desensitize children to acts of violence. I'm totally with you. People eagerly get their kids medicated up because they don't want to face the hard choices of being a parent. Lots of stuff to work on there, only 99% of America isn't going to work on it and too many companies make too much money off that stuff to just up and stop.

    I agree that zero tolerance is over the top, but given the fact that there are no magical devices that will tell the future, nobody wants to err on the side of leniency and then have that decision come back and bite them. Sure there are telltale signs, sometimes... That doesn't do anything for 'all the time' though. In the decade of the 80's there were 9 documented school shootings. From '90-99 there were 29. From 2000-2010 there were 58. Given those rising numbers (and I'll fully disclose I pulled them off Wikipedia, but I did do some looking at the reported incidents and they all seem to be actual events, so I went with their numbers assuming they are low, if anything), you'd be crazy to be a school administrator or law enforcement official and not err to the side of caution.

  14. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by punk rocka View Post
    That doesn't do anything for 'all the time' though. In the decade of the 80's there were 9 documented school shootings. From '90-99 there were 29. From 2000-2010 there were 58. Given those rising numbers (and I'll fully disclose I pulled them off Wikipedia, but I did do some looking at the reported incidents and they all seem to be actual events, so I went with their numbers assuming they are low, if anything), you'd be crazy to be a school administrator or law enforcement official and not err to the side of caution.
    Do you know if those were the number of victims or if those were the number of incidents. I'm thinking that is then number of victims from a smaller number of actual incidents but am willing to be corrected because I am just guessing based on my recollection of news stories.

    Even if there were 58 incidents in ten years, this represents a fairly rare event. So now, lets turn to what you wrote about child kidnapping and rape, child abductions. Pocket knives and even KA Bar TDIs in the hands of a moderately trained young lady might
    reduce the problem. We've all seen video cam images of kids being led off by the hands making NO effort to struggle. That is what we get from wussification.

    How about we stop throwing good money after bad on expensive athletic programs and put gun training and self defense into the PE programs? And forget using the HS gym teacher for this. Bring in the independent MA teachers. Most I've run into are exceptionally good with kids. At least make these things part of after school activities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chezrad View Post
    I think it is interesting that in our society kids with firearms locked in their cars are thrown out of schools, little old ladies are felt up in airports, yet there are 20 million + people who have supposedly broken the law by getting into this country and no one seems to care. We have become twisted.
    Small potato concern really when we have a relatively small group of people who managed to destroy something like 14 trillion dollars of wealth and get rewarded with bonuses instead of getting punished. Yes, we are twisted. The kid who steals beer get punished severely; the middle aged creep who destroys lives gets a bonus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Do you know if those were the number of victims or if those were the number of incidents. I'm thinking that is then number of victims from a smaller number of actual incidents but am willing to be corrected because I am just guessing based on my recollection of news stories.

    Even if there were 58 incidents in ten years, this represents a fairly rare event. So now, lets turn to what you wrote about child kidnapping and rape, child abductions. Pocket knives and even KA Bar TDIs in the hands of a moderately trained young lady might
    reduce the problem. We've all seen video cam images of kids being led off by the hands making NO effort to struggle. That is what we get from wussification.

    How about we stop throwing good money after bad on expensive athletic programs and put gun training and self defense into the PE programs? And forget using the HS gym teacher for this. Bring in the independent MA teachers. Most I've run into are exceptionally good with kids. At least make these things part of after school activities.
    I counted the incident numbers off this page.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting

    Of the incidents I double checked, the numbers were accurate, but it is Wikipedia so there could be some errors in it, hence why I was forthcoming about my source. I generally dislike using Wikipedia as an actual source but I couldn't find much on compiled statistics for school shootings.

    On the rest of your post, I can't give you a big enough +1! I completely agree. I think we do entirely too little to prepare our kids for real life and it goes way beyond basic self esteem preservation. I have a big problem with kids team sports today because of that "everyone is a winner" mentality that they foster. Every child, no matter how poor they do, or how little they care, gets the "player of the game" award once because it wouldn't be fair otherwise. Yeah, that's getting our kids ready for the real world... Self esteem that's given to a child is fragile and worthless; but self esteem that's earned is rock solid... I think every child should have some sports options like you speak of. I am very excited about getting my boys involved in the responsibilities and rewards of shooting.

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