ugly Police shoot drunk with hose 8 times

[ayce2]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_water_nozzle_shooting

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[WHEC724]

Using a two-fisted pistol grip to aim something that is shaped like a gun at a police officer is generally a bad idea. Being drunk is a poor excuse.

[azchevy]

He did this to himself.

[Guantes]

A sad situation and difficult to criticize without being there.

[mcp1810]

Stupid yes. Ugly? I don't think so. Darwinism in action.

[alachner]

Pointing ANYTHING at the police with a pistol grip on it or shaped like a pistol is ALWAYS a bad idea. If you don't want to be shot at by the police, then don't threaten the police, respect them, drop whatever you have in your hand, raise your hands and follow instructions promptly. If you are threatening the police with anything, then most likely you will be shot to death. Simple as that. Law enforcement officers risk their lives for the sake of the general public and society, so they have no time to risk waiting to find out whether the suspect is holding a gun or not. Therefore, they have to shoot as soon as they feel threatened or believe the suspect has a weapon and then ask questions later. Sad, but that's the way Law Enforcement Officers and the World work.

[3D]

Very sad event.
That "man with a gun" call sets up some very dangerous and volitile dynamics.

[Janq]

He did this to himself.

At the end of the day....Catalyst (drunken stranger trespassing on private property) to shot cause (Unknown mental state person handling what in low light appears and is sounding by 'noise' to be a handgun as he points it at buildings and responding LEOs)...I too agree.

Here is the device he'd had in hand, with benefit of very good lighting and macro view photography...

Black pistol grip water hose nozzle held

This image released by the Long Beach Police shows the black pistol grip water hose nozzle held by Doug Zerby before being shot to death by Long Beach Police officers on Sunday afternoon.
(AP Photo/Long Beach Police)


Source - http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_water_nozzle_shooting

Would a responding LEO in low light/darkness mistake this for being a firearm of some sort?
You bet your life they would....And they are not willing nor required to bet their own life that it isn't.

- Janq

[Guantes]

Interesting. That nozzle is considerably more pistol like in appearance than most that I have seen.

[deafdave3]

The drunk's family is throwing a fit because the police gave no warnings before shooting said drunk. I'm sorry, but in my opinion, if an officer has a gun pointed at him, he can't waste time talking. He needs to neutralize that threat as soon as possible. That's exactly what happened here. I don't fault the officers in this story; the drunk is very wrong.

[Hopyard]

Interesting. That nozzle is considerably more pistol like in appearance than most that I have seen.

Agree, that is very pistol looking, but ... The story I read, maybe not the same as the one posted here, said the guy was drunk on his friend's porch or patio, some third party made a call. Dim light and all it is hard to know what everyone was and wasn't able to see.

But as to assigning blame, the man was shot dead while doing nothing but holding a garden hose. Maybe this one should be filed under "stuff happens," but I doubt that the family is going to accept that "stuff" should have happened.

I see no wrongdoing here on the part of the dead guy beyond maybe PI, and even then, he was invited and on private property-- at least per story I read earlier in the day.

Maybe the real lesson is that if you can't see properly don't assume the worst. That's how bad stuff happens.

This story is relevant: http://www.tuftsdaily.com/editorial-...-gun-1.2422666

Lets be truthful here. If one of us CHL/CWP folks mistook a garden hose for a gun we'd be in a world of legal hurt and no one would be coming to our defense--especially if the guy we shot was just sitting on a porch and not directly threatening us.

Ability, Opportunity, Jeopardy, Intent. ALL of these are missing here.

[BikerRN]

If you believe it's a gun, then it's a gun until proven otherwise.

Biker

[Guantes]

I would suggest that pointing the nozzle (gun) at an officer was a direct threat.
Ability, Opportunity, Jeopardy, Intent are not required, only a perception of them of sufficient reality that a reasonable man would perceive the same.

[bladenbullet]

Maybe the real lesson is that if you can't see properly don't assume the worst. That's how bad stuff happens.

.

right...maybe you should wait for actual muzzle flash before you decide to take the shot...i dont care if the guy was flatass drunk out of his mind and only raised his hands in a 2 handed pistol like grip without a nozzle in them...he did it to the wrong people at the wrong time...those officers wives and children want to see them at the end of the day...their job isnt to wait until they get shot to return fire...

and you dont believe the article you cited demonstrates slanted thinking in any way?...somebody may have made a mistake but when the wrench wielding person was confronted he probably didnt raise the wrench at officers like a gun...otherwise he would probably be dead also....theres nothing wrong with reporting something you think you saw...even if it may be incorrect...there are people who sort those things out...but if those people feel threatened then the outcome may not be desireable...its not hard to act responsibly in front of the police...if you drink so much that you cannot then you are a fool....

[Hopyard]

I would suggest that pointing the nozzle (gun) at an officer was a direct threat.
Ability, Opportunity, Jeopardy, Intent are not required, only a perception of them of sufficient reality that a reasonable man would perceive the same.

I wasn't there so I don't know what a reasonable person would perceive, but that type of pistol grip nozzle is pretty darn common. The guy wasn't yelling threats, and apparently remained seated. I'm not so sure this one passes the reasonable man test.

IMO-- This one smells.