Flashlight on Plano cop's gun likely to figure in lawsuit

This is a discussion on Flashlight on Plano cop's gun likely to figure in lawsuit within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Crime blog: Flashlight on Plano cop's gun likely to figure in lawsuit by shooting victim's survivors Link to article: A Plano narcotics agent accidentally shot ...

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Thread: Flashlight on Plano cop's gun likely to figure in lawsuit

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array Chevy-SS's Avatar
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    Flashlight on Plano cop's gun likely to figure in lawsuit

    Crime blog: Flashlight on Plano cop's gun likely to figure in lawsuit by shooting victim's survivors

    Link to article:

    A Plano narcotics agent accidentally shot and killed a drug suspect while attempting to operate the Surefire X300 flashlight's mechanism on his Springfield .40-caliber semi-automatic pistol.


    Gotta be careful which trigger you pull when aiming your pistol mounted flashlight at someone!

    Pic of the gun:



    -
    'Be careful, even in small matters' - Miyamoto Musashi

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  3. #2
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    Ouch.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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    From a human factors stand point the is one of the stupidest designs I've seen!
    Rick

    EOD - Initial success or total failure

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    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    I have to agree with that. UUhhh, which finger?
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  6. #5
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    The Surefire lights have no "trigger".

    It has paddles that are toggled up and down...With a straight extended finger.
    How he went from trying to toggle pen spring resistance paddles to _bending_ his trigger finger to contact his guns trigger, and from there pulling with 6 to 10 lbs. of pressure (his gun was not a SA 1911!) to cause the gun to fire...Is lost on me.

    If he claims th reach was too far then this is an item he should have assessed and known prior upon _choosing_ to install this device to his gun for professional work.
    Further by his profession he is presumed to have been _trained_ and practiced in using this device as attached to his gun.
    That responsibility falls to his own shoulders, not Surefire nor his dept. either (!).

    If he knew prior that this product was difficult for him in specific to make use of, then he should have removed it and made use of more conventional for police work a hand-held illuminator.
    He is responsible for himself and his own actions (trigger pulling) as well as inaction (Choosing to NOT field a product he knew before hand was ill fitting in function for himself as an individual user).

    The victims family are right to sue, and I would too.

    Surefire Weapon Lights
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1m0RQ4073k

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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    Janq,
    look at the picture again, under the trigger guard, there is a "trigger" used to turn on the light. Not a smart design, but not just push up/down to turn on either.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
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    Stupid.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    I see a big pay off for a drug dealers family.
    Don't do things you don't want to explain to the Paramedics!

    Stupidity should be painful.

  10. #9
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sigmanluke View Post
    Janq,
    look at the picture again, under the trigger guard, there is a "trigger" used to turn on the light. Not a smart design, but not just push up/down to turn on either.
    I've used the product directly first hand.
    In fact while at my FFL last friday doing paperwork on a rifle I'd ordered I was handling this exact same model on a blue gun at a store display (they are dumping Surefire on clearance).

    Whatever that extension piece is he has there...That is not how the units are normally shipped and activated by.
    You are supposed to use the paddles as directly mounted to t he device...With a straight finger.
    I've never seen such a device add-on for any weapon mounted light before.

    I'm going to check the SureFire site to see if this some option add-on they are offering...or if it's possibly aftermarket (!).

    - Janq

    Edit:

    I checked the SureFire site...
    That is an option item as an add-on now offered (was not two years ago when their .GOV/.MIL authorized dealer was a client of my company), but is not the OEM manner that the light is setup and sold.
    Parts and Accessories
    Home > Products > Parts and Accessories > Switches > Grip Switch Assembly for X-Series WeaponLights

    DG
    Grip Switch Assembly for X-Series WeaponLights


    Description
    DG
    For surgical control, the DG remote switch uses a minimal center-mounted pad. This allows the operator to activate the light with finger pressure without needing to move a finger from the grip.
    Price: $89.00
    Source - http://www.surefire.com/DG-Remote-Ta...witch-X-Series
    So again it comes back to the end user.
    This device is an add-on choice and is not how the device ships as standard/normal in configuration.
    He choose to make use of it in specific and that is on him.
    Never mind that this device is again not a TRIGGER but rather a switch pad...And thus does not require 6 to 10# pressure to activate/deactivate, as the guns trigger does, not to mention that it is located physically _below_ and outside of the trigger guard (!).
    Basic operator training toward functional proficiency would and does kill the officers position that fault lies with the products design, or his employer/agency for allowing/endorsing it's use.

    He shot a man who was not to be shot and killed him wrongly; The bottom line.
    Man to chosen device interface inter-interoperability, as by operator negligence.
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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    Less good . I think that someone will get a lot of money
    "The Second Amendment: America's Original Homeland Security"

  12. #11
    Senior Member Array dunndw's Avatar
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    I have that setup on my nightstand 1911. I don't see how the light had a dang thing to do with it. The light pictured is activated by the middle finger gripping the pistol, not by the trigger finger. He had to have really REALLY screwed up. Had his finger on the trigger, tightened his grip without thinking about it and ND'ed right into the bad guy.

    Not the lights fault...that blame rests on the shooter.
    "If I was an extremist, our founding fathers would all be extremists," he said. "Without them, we wouldn't have our independence. We'd be a disarmed British system of feudal subjectivity."

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    Quote Originally Posted by rstickle View Post
    From a human factors stand point the is one of the stupidest designs I've seen!
    Yes, it looks like a human factors engineering boo boo.

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    This is why I do not like lights on guns, especially for home defense....because you're pointing the light at something you're trying to ID...(and pointing your gun at someone that may not need to be shot)....

    There was a thread earlier this week about a member who wanted to know what to do about that bump in the night.......KEEP the LIGHT OFF your GUN....learn to use a flashlight properly (with a gun)...
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

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    You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know

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    I agree that the total responsibility lies on the shooter. I was ONLY pointing out the difference in operation.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
    Thomas Jefferson

  16. #15
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Gotya SLM.

    If the individual had made the choice to rather use the toggle switches, which remain even on this end cap replacement part, then he'd have had no problems.
    Now if the issue was that his index finger is too short to reach the toggles, then that still comes back to him as he should then source an altogether different means of illumination (handheld) or as noted invest the time to train & practice to become functionally proficient with the device to the point that it is second nature...Just as he should with use of his firearm including the concept of _finger off the trigger_ which is basic. : |

    If I were shot like this, and survived it, I'd sue both the shooter as well as his employer too (town/city) for not providing and/or mandating tool& method proficiency training and examination to such a degree that the officer is well able to use lethal force associated tools without being improper.

    This is akin to that case in SF where the BART officer wrongly shot that guy claiming that he thought his handgun was a TASER, which also made no sense.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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