UGLY: ABC Pushes New "Gun Control" Documentary

This is a discussion on UGLY: ABC Pushes New "Gun Control" Documentary within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; You seem to be worried that the mental patient can get a gun at a show. If he hasn't got any felony convictions, domestic violence ...

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Thread: UGLY: ABC Pushes New "Gun Control" Documentary

  1. #31
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    You seem to be worried that the mental patient can get a gun at a show. If he hasn't got any felony convictions, domestic violence arrests or been committed, he can buy one legally. His psychiatric records are medical records, and not in the NCIC system unless he has been committed or deemed a danger to himself or others. Feel better now? If he doesn't go through an FFL or to a gunshow, he can buy one from another private individual even if he is a crazy violent felon. And if said person does threaten to kill, that is assault, which is a crime for which he can be arrested. But the police are really just there to clean up after the fact, so it is better you can defend yourself than worry about who is buying guns at a show.

    Your belief that felons buy guns illegally at shows is misplaced. FFLs at shows are subject to the same laws as they are at their place of business. The ATF is at every gun show I attend. Anyone can go outside in the parking lot (or McDonald's) and deal privately, of course. Or they can buy stolen guns in the hood.

    If you know of two felons that have purchased guns, and not reported them to the police, then you are part of the problem (unless you are their lawyer, of course). Legally you may even be held partially responsible for what they do with them in the future (at least in a civil case).

    Maybe you should move to California, as I hear they have now made it a crime to transfer a gun without going through an FFL and NCIC check. Of course that will not stop true criminals, who will still obtain them illegally.

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  3. #32
    Distinguished Member Array LanceORYGUN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    What ? Where ? I know of absolutely NO where that can happen at a gun show. Please provide any state that has laws that will allow it ? I like to be able to look up the relevant statutes of that state. It's "illegal" everywhere ..... if they are doing it, they are violating the law and ATF would love to talk to them.
    This is my understanding too. Private sales are allowed here in Oregon, but NOT at gun shows. If you want to sell a gun here at a gun show, a background check has to be made. I even sold one of my rifles a few years ago at a local show. They had the necessary forms available, and even made a phone available to use to call the state for the background check.

    Does anyone here have any evidence at all that any state allows private sales at gun shows WITHOUT a background check being run???

    I believe that Eagleks is right here in his assertions.

    ABC News got duped here, in my opinion.

    .

  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by LanceORYGUN View Post
    Does anyone here have any evidence at all that any state allows private sales at gun shows WITHOUT a background check being run???
    I dunno, Florida MIGHT, it would depend on the County. Miami Dade passed a local ordinance that says that any private sales have to be run thru a dealer with a background check but that doesn't cover any other county. Miami Dade is a very liberal county with an antigun administration always. I mean look, Janet Reno was our former State Attorney! So I hafta wonder what other counties say.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExSoldier View Post
    I dunno, Florida MIGHT, it would depend on the County. Miami Dade passed a local ordinance that says that any private sales have to be run thru a dealer with a background check but that doesn't cover any other county. Miami Dade is a very liberal county with an antigun administration always. I mean look, Janet Reno was our former State Attorney! So I hafta wonder what other counties say.
    So you live in the state of Florida, and are not 100% sure of your own state law?

    .

  6. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by LanceORYGUN View Post
    So you live in the state of Florida, and are not 100% sure of your own state law?

    .
    As he pointed out, it depends on the county. Since Miami Dade county passed an ordinance requiring any private sale be run through a FFL, he has to assume other counties in FL may have a similar ordinance as well.

    Missouri has 114 counties... If something like that started in Missouri, how would anyone be expected to know what each 114 counties had in that regard. Most people would just worry about the county in which they lived. I don't know how many counties FL has, but I bet it's a lot.
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  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by yaonttwo View Post
    My belief: If the gun show requirement was the same as our local gun shop requirement to purchase were the same, there would be fewer felons walking around with weapons.
    Please disregard this thread if you live in any other states as this has not occurred nor will it ever.
    Dealers at gun shows are held to the exact same laws as brick and mortar stores. But your story really only proves the ridiculous nature of gun control laws. That people who would break the law, sell a gun illegally, will continue to break the law regardless of what the law says. My last gun purchased at a gun show involved the same paper work as the gun purchased at the brick and mortar gun store.

    Quote Originally Posted by LanceORYGUN View Post
    Does anyone here have any evidence at all that any state allows private sales at gun shows WITHOUT a background check being run???
    .
    NC sort of does. Let me explain. To purchase a handgun you need a CCP or Pistol Purchase Permit. Regardless of whether it's from a business or individual. My last FTF sale at a gun show involved checking the buyers CCP and license. NC does the background check before the purchase through the CCP or PPP. It's a hassle up front, but no phone calls or checks at the purchase.
    I prefer to live dangerously free than safely caged!

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  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefjason View Post
    NC sort of does. Let me explain. To purchase a handgun you need a CCP or Pistol Purchase Permit. Regardless of whether it's from a business or individual. My last FTF sale at a gun show involved checking the buyers CCP and license. NC does the background check before the purchase through the CCP or PPP. It's a hassle up front, but no phone calls or checks at the purchase.
    OK, thanks for explaining how the North Carolina system works.

    Is NC one of the states that the Brady Campaign is complaining has a "gun show" loophole? Seems to me that NC has itself covered, with the way its law works.

    .

  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    As he pointed out, it depends on the county. Since Miami Dade county passed an ordinance requiring any private sale be run through a FFL, he has to assume other counties in FL may have a similar ordinance as well.
    .[/I]
    So are you saying that there are no rules specific to selling guns privately at gun shows in Florida?

    The Brady Campaign keeps harping that a "Gun Show Loophole" exists. Are they being true and accurate in making such a claim?

    We certainly have no loophole here in Oregon.

    .

  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by LanceORYGUN View Post
    So you live in the state of Florida, and are not 100% sure of your own state law?
    I never buy from stores or gun shows anymore. I never buy FTF (face to face) outside my own county. The only exception to that was my trade of my Taurus Public Defender to a dealer at a county gun show for my Sig C3. Otherwise I strictly buy from Bud's online. That goes to an FFL and I do my transaction from there. I'm 100% sure of my state laws governing my CCW. Federal laws, too. But as far as purchasing? Only where I do business. And thanks to a semi-gutting of the State Constitution years ago, as long as they don't BAN guns, counties in the state can do as they like regulating sales. As I said Miami Dade is one of the most liberal and antigun in the state so they passed their little stupidity locally. Funny thing is, I think this county as one of the largest also has the most ccw holders, too. But they love their liberal dems down here and like the saying goes, all politics is local.
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  11. #40
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    You know, I had this same type of conversation with my Congressman, and then his staff. He's very strong 2A, but he was convinced there was a "gunshow loophole" and so was his staff. . I stayed on him adamantly there was none. I finally, gave him and his staff copies of the laws and asked for them to show me the loophole. At that point, they were determined to shut me up and prove me wrong. (Law is my thing... LOL).

    They came back after reading the laws, thinking they could easily point it out and couldn't, and wanted to "discuss it" more. We went thru it step by step and had about 5 conversations. They sat back and said, "there's no loophole for gun shows at all". Ok, now you have got it. The "salesmanship" of the Brady Bunch and Bloomberg has been amazing on this subject, convincing people there is a "loophole", when there isn't ...... and it has nothing to do with gunshows.

    What the Brady Bunch wants to eliminate is, the ability for "anyone" to do a private sale of a gun to another person. This is what they are calling "unlicensed dealers". There are NO unlicensed dealers at gun shows selling guns, etc without background checks. IF there were, they would be in jail before the day was out. So, some in Congress want to stop these "unlicensed dealers", but there are no unlicensed dealers.

    The Brady Bunch wants it so I cannot sell my shotgun to my brother. They are using labels to "conceal" their real agenda, and people are wrongly assuming these people are being "honest".

    We have to really pay attention to stupidity like this. AS we can all see in this thread, there are some who truly believe there is a "loophole" that in reality does NOT exist.

    IF there is a "loophole", pull out the laws... read them... and then show it to us. You won't find one.
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  12. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by LanceORYGUN View Post
    OK, thanks for explaining how the North Carolina system works.

    Is NC one of the states that the Brady Campaign is complaining has a "gun show" loophole? Seems to me that NC has itself covered, with the way its law works.

    .
    Don't know for sure. But I would bet they still don't like our system, since it involves guns. If they have complained about it, it's not been very much. We tried to do away with the PPP last year, but the Sheriff's Assoc stopped it in committee.
    I prefer to live dangerously free than safely caged!

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  13. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by javahawk View Post
    I think gun shows should be held to the same standards as gun shops.



    OOHHHH!!!!

    The bells, the bells!!!!!!!!

    There is no gun show in Michigan that sells a firearm, to any other less stipulation than a traditional brick and mortar shop.







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  14. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    As he pointed out, it depends on the county. Since Miami Dade county passed an ordinance requiring any private sale be run through a FFL, he has to assume other counties in FL may have a similar ordinance as well.

    Missouri has 114 counties... If something like that started in Missouri, how would anyone be expected to know what each 114 counties had in that regard. Most people would just worry about the county in which they lived. I don't know how many counties FL has, but I bet it's a lot.
    Florida has 67 Counties. Most of the population is cenetered in Miami Dade, Broward, Palm Beach and Hillsborough (Tampa). Duvall County is exactly the same as Jacksonville. You enter there the sign reads: Now entering Duvall County, now entering Jacksonville City Limits. Jacksonville is the largest city in the country in terms of square miles.
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  15. #44
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    http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/ind...s/0790.33.html
    Um remember just because someone passes a law, doesnt mean its legal. South Florida is really bad about forgetting about the State Preemption.
    I know not what this "overkill" means.

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  16. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by javahawk View Post
    I think gun shows should be held to the same standards as gun shops.
    The gun shows in Pennsylvania are held to the same standards as the gun shops. In fact, you must be a licenced dealer to sell at a gun show.
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