UGLY: Marine, wife attacked by teens after showing of "Little Fockers" - Page 3

UGLY: Marine, wife attacked by teens after showing of "Little Fockers"

This is a discussion on UGLY: Marine, wife attacked by teens after showing of "Little Fockers" within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Had to deal with 'groups', one was an attack of 4 women in a parked car at a strip mall .... about fifteen 16-19 yr ...

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  1. #31
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Had to deal with 'groups', one was an attack of 4 women in a parked car at a strip mall .... about fifteen 16-19 yr males .. trying to open the doors, denting up the car, trying to bash in the windows and telling them how they were going to rape them, etc. We heard this from across the street and saw what was happening. Police were called while four of us in my car , well.... I was driving so the other 3 in the car had no real choice, pulled up to the situation and told them to back off and leave the women alone. A discussion followed, with several threats toward us and posturing, when one stupid guy went into this pants for a gun.......

    That's a BIG thing you have to watch out for in "groups"... the "stupid one".

    Now, in our case.... I drew my gun and had it pointed at his face telling him if he moved a muscle, he was dead. With the other hand, I pulled out a badge and told the others to back off and to not move... and if anyone else wanted to reach in their pants I would drop them where they stood.
    About that time, the troops arrived and started collecting up and chasing down many of the "group" for a trip to jail.

    Disparity in force : 2 couples leaving a movie together and walking down a street to their car. 4 guys approach them and start giving them trouble. After some "words" .... a group of about 12 additional males come rushing out to beat up the 2 guys. It is a "game" to them that is often played by older teens. The two guys were not small guys but barely lived ! ! They were beaten so badly they were in intensive care for quite awhile and barely pulled thru. Their recovery took several months to a year. When some of the BG's were caught, they threatened to kill their family if anyone tesitified against them and did intimidating drive bys of their homes. One of the one's beaten up, was my best friends son.

    Would I shoot if I had to ? Would you ? I think the object is to go home safe and alive. It's up to the attackers to what level it takes to stop the attack. I don't think 'age' has much to do with anything.
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  2. #32
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Sounds like too many youngin's these days have no respect for anyone else. No morals, and no brains. Hope the brandishing citizen didn't get in trouble for his actions. Sure he assisted, but what if "one" of them decided to jump on him. Would he have been justified in using his firearm on the "one" that jumped him? Most likely not (use of deadly force against an unarmed teenage punk). Could have turned ugly.
    This would also worry me. A mob mentality is such that it feeds off the bravado of a few mouths. I could envision some of the mob deciding that the good Samaritan will not shoot. That he is bluffing. Scary to even think about it.

    Michael

  3. #33
    Distinguished Member Array LanceORYGUN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    This would also worry me. A mob mentality is such that it feeds off the bravado of a few mouths. I could envision some of the mob deciding that the good Samaritan will not shoot. That he is bluffing. Scary to even think about it.

    Michael
    Remember though, that this is not an ordinary mob in this case. They are only juveniles, just 15, 16, and 17 years old.

    It would almost be impossible to open fire on a bunch of kids so very young.

    And if one did shoot a few of them, would that not then possibly enrage and provoke the rest of the mob present to join in on the attack?

    .

  4. #34
    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
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    Wow what a mob mentality...with such a large group of attackers I think the witness would have been more than justified in firing if attacked
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  5. #35
    VIP Member Array goldshellback's Avatar
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    A mob, be it juvenilie OR adults, is a special kind of 'dynamic'. A mob of individuals quickly becomes an almost singular living entity with a 'mind' and 'mood' of it's own. A group of teens are 'ditsed' in the movies because their loud and unruley. Their kicked out, and text and call their buddies......who also text and call other buddies.....a mob is formed and bolstered by a few vocal bad attitudes. The couple exits and is quickly confronted............
    If it were me, I'd be back in the theater and on the phone with 911.......if I had that chance at all. If the 'dynamic' had deteriated that quickly to prevent me from getting my wife outta there( that'd be MY priority one), then I'd have to make ready to take extreem measures. I do not care about much else at that point......a mob focused on me and mine is a disparity of force I'm not gonna control or get away from. I dunno exactly how but my sidearm 'may' come to bare very quickly and dispatch (911) would know to get the 'troops' there quickly.
    Any 'mob' sceniro is very scary and something I want NO part of.....especially if the mob's focus is ME. This is a very thought-provoking story and good posts on this thread.
    What other mind-sets and (maybe) training have any of ya'll had/learned about any 'mob-type' situations.....or has that ever been covered. My only training on anything remotly close to this has been Navy/DoD training with back-up, other guns, and radios to get the 'troops' there.....sentry and team/convoy type sceaniros. Nothing like this....and I would not expect someone else, armed or not, to involve themselves in it.
    What say/think ya'll on this?
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  6. #36
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    Sometimes I wonder if carrying a Katana would have more effect. The first one brave enough to step up gets slashed, the and then youy slash the closest one to him for good effect. Then you stand there, sword out and ready wating for the next move.

    That would seem to have more of an impact.
    Yeah... I knowi ts unrealistic in todays world, but at the least the fools in the crowd would understand it.
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  7. #37
    Distinguished Member Array kapnketel's Avatar
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    A number of lessons in this story. First, such events are not that unusual at theatres, especially the large cinaplexes (one of the largest categories of claims/lawsuits against theatre chains are assaults). Large theatre=large crowds, especially unsupervised teens. Second, most theatre chains have "no guns" policies and I suspect that is why the bystander had to retrieve his weapon from his car. The person being attacked did not have that option, assuming he complied with the thetre's policy. Third, realize that groups of teen girls can be as threatening as males. Most of us are "conditioned" to treat girls and women differntly but they can be as great or higher threat due to our hesitancy to use force on them (the LEO's here can all tell you stories of domestic calls where the woman attaches the officer, for example). Would you react differnetly if a group of teens girls approached you? I confess I might hesitate to pull my weapon and shoot. Food for thought.
    I'd rather be lucky than good any day

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  8. #38
    VIP Member Array SpencerB's Avatar
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    What is wrong with people today? Fighting and hitting a woman because you were asked to be quiet in a movie? Bystanders watching as a woman is hit and a man is being attacked by multiple people? People need to adjust their moral compasses and actually do something good in their lives, it's sickening how many people don't do anything.

  9. #39
    Ex Member Array Georgia1911's Avatar
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    Just like in school,they never change.Always wanting to see the action but not wanting to have a part in the consequences.Glad our Krav-Maga trained forces can take care of themselves.

  10. #40
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    Excellent post Janq.

    A few years back there were two incidents in my area of groups of males all under the age of 18 attacking individuals for no apparent reason but to inflict harm. In one instance an older man was beaten to death with a golf club and in the other a homeless man was severly beaten with fists and kicked in the head. He survived. Age does not appear to be an issue when it comes to violent behavior. All ages including pre-teenagers can and do become involved especially when they are in a group. Girls are no exception. What a sad commentary on the state of our society not only here in America but around the world. The most dangerous creature on this planet walks upright on two legs.
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  11. #41
    VIP Member Array paaiyan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old School View Post
    The most dangerous creature on this planet walks upright on two legs.
    Absolutely correct.

    The trick for me since signs in Oklahoma carry no legal weight and I'd be carrying, sign or no sign is this: when to draw. If my fiance and I leave the theater and find ourselves surrounded by a group of 10 girls and 7 guys with malicious intent, do I wait for a move or do I draw immediately and exit stage left? I'm tempted to take the second option. If 15-20 people surround me and start yelling, I'd be highly tempted to draw immediately out of fear for myself and my fiance. I will not allow the situation to progress to the point where she might get hurt. I can't allow that to happen. And the easiest way to ensure that is to preempt any possible attack.
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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Sometimes I wonder if carrying a Katana would have more effect. The first one brave enough to step up gets slashed, the and then youy slash the closest one to him for good effect. Then you stand there, sword out and ready wating for the next move. That would seem to have more of an impact.
    Let me guess. You're going to say: IN THE END ... THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!
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  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by paaiyan View Post
    Absolutely correct.

    The trick for me since signs in Oklahoma carry no legal weight and I'd be carrying, sign or no sign is this: when to draw. If my fiance and I leave the theater and find ourselves surrounded by a group of 10 girls and 7 guys with malicious intent, do I wait for a move or do I draw immediately and exit stage left? I'm tempted to take the second option. If 15-20 people surround me and start yelling, I'd be highly tempted to draw immediately out of fear for myself and my fiance. I will not allow the situation to progress to the point where she might get hurt. I can't allow that to happen. And the easiest way to ensure that is to preempt any possible attack.
    Wow, that's scary ... that kind of dramatic escalation. Here's why. I teach that demographic and the violence and mayhem these kids see each and every day ... it makes them numb and they're no longer frightened by it. Most of 'em have t-shirts for every day of the week that read IN MEMORY OF and have a pic of some buddy or girlfriend that's been cut down in the 'hood.

    So what you'll see is a momentary recoiling as your gun comes into view and then they'll get real hard and DARE you to shoot and they won't back down, not at all. In a group they'll be willing to take that gun and put it where the sun NEVER shines. and not even break a sweat because they often practice doing the same thing to cops when they're in jail and they get taught by some really B-A-D guys! So you pull your piece and you don't engage a viable threat you're gonna have all sorts of trouble beyond immediate survival, because these kids know the law and the situations often better than their prey does. Stay very cool, real frosty. One of them will make a mistake and when that happens the legal weight shifts to you and they'll know that immediately. Then you have a better handle on the situation. You're on more stable ground, right?
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  14. #44
    VIP Member Array paaiyan's Avatar
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    Good points, Ex. I spent my high school years in a school with more than its fair share of thugs, but I was one of the loners and tended to keep to myself so I can't say I've dealt with the mentality much. I'm always open to new insight on how to deal with people or situations. You're saying wait until a physical altercation is basically imminent?
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  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by paaiyan View Post
    Good points, Ex. I spent my high school years in a school with more than its fair share of thugs, but I was one of the loners and tended to keep to myself so I can't say I've dealt with the mentality much. I'm always open to new insight on how to deal with people or situations. You're saying wait until a physical altercation is basically imminent?
    Each and every situation is going to be different so I can't give a blanket answer to cover them all. But drawing a gun has to be absolutely a final step and when that happens the next result is engagement and folks going down, for good. Avoid that at nearly all cost is my motto. That should never be the first second or even third option. It's got to be the LAST and only option.

    My mindset is to take the ugliest biggest guy in a group OR if you can identify him, the LEADER and if you have to go to empty hand combat or even a step down in a layered defense like a taser type device -- I prefer the ones where you have to make contact over those that actually project the darts and wires -- (I've used them and they do work) and more often that super loud FRYIN' BACON sound will make a lot of punks up and book out! Remember we're talkin' punks. Maybe short criminals but they still don't YET have the life experiences and their senses are easily overloaded. They can also pretty easily be outsmarted or out maneuvered. I do it all the time in a classroom. Maybe a stun device that's real loud (what I carry) or pepper spray and a combo action. Spray several at at the same time have a target to strike (empty hands). The idea is not to win a beat down but to provide you an open space and some distractions for them to allow you to break contact and get someplace safe. Also to get help. Remember, every situation is different. Just my .02.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

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