Bad: Perry police chief on leave for altercation with Walmart greeter (Utah)

Bad: Perry police chief on leave for altercation with Walmart greeter (Utah)

This is a discussion on Bad: Perry police chief on leave for altercation with Walmart greeter (Utah) within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; As reported by KSL.com: Perry police chief on leave for altercation with Walmart greeter December 28th, 2010 @ 6:00pm By ksl.com HARRISVILLE - A shopping ...

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  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Bad: Perry police chief on leave for altercation with Walmart greeter (Utah)

    As reported by KSL.com:

    Perry police chief on leave for altercation with Walmart greeter
    December 28th, 2010 @ 6:00pm
    By ksl.com

    HARRISVILLE - A shopping trip turned into a belligerent shouting match between a Northern Utah Chief of Police and Walmart employees. The chief involved is now on paid administrative leave after the incident.

    Investigating officers say they don't know exactly what made the chief so angry, but they say he shouted profanity at both Walmart employees, and their officers.

    ...

    Surveillance video shows him checking out, loading several items into his cart-- some that were bags, but many that were not. He paid the clerk and then pushed his cart toward the exit, but that's when Harrisville Police say the Chief's trip to the store took a turn for the worse.

    "One of the door greeters approached him, and just asked for the receipt because of some of the unbagged items," said Lt. Keith Wheelright of the Harrisville Police department.

    The 70-year-old Walmart door greeter approached Jones because she was following a new store procedure. Employees are now supposed to ask to see a receipt for items not in store bags, but apparently Jones didn't want to give it to her.

    "He allegedly swore at the door greeter, walked past her without showing her the receipt," said Wheelright.

    Jones allegedly shouted extreme profanity at both the elderly woman and the male employee standing in the entrance. Police say he also threatened to injure one of the loss prevention employees, and once Harrisville officers arrived, he became even more aggravated-- and continued to yell and swear at them. He also refused to tell the officers who he was.

    "Just a lot of stuff about if you've got a reason, go ahead and arrest me," Wheelright said about Jones' comments. "A lot of things like that. I don't have to show you an ID, I've got rights and I know what they are. I don't have to tell you who I am."

    Several security employees followed Jones into the parking lot and again attempted to talk to him. At that point, no one knew who Jones was and he did not identify himself as a law enforcer, Wheelwright said.

    "The male then told us to (expletive) off and that he just spent over $400 and now he was being accused of stealing," according to the police report.

    Witness Kelly East said Jones was "very confrontational, hostile, and I felt threatened because of his actions." Jones then threatened East not to point at anything in his shopping cart.

    "Point at anything again and I will whoop your (expletive) (expletive)," East claimed Jones said.

    Only after the Harrisville Chief of Police arrived on the scene did Jones calm down...

    The full story w/video report can be found at; http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=13808117

    - Janq

    Question for active LEO:
    What is a person to do, a civilian, when confronted by a police off-duty who acts out in such a manner?

    Now in this case the person, Chief Mike Jones, was not recognized by anyone and thus an unknown person no doubt assumed by all (store staff and responding police) to be yet another bag of nuts of his meds.
    Easily this could have gone sideways especially considering Jones was acting erratic and unreasonable as he did to start (his choice of words and manner of delivery).
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array paaiyan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    Question for active LEO:
    What is a person to do, a civilian, when confronted by a police off-duty who acts out in such a manner?

    Now in this case the person, Chief Mike Jones, was not recognized by anyone and thus an unknown person no doubt assumed by all (store staff and responding police) to be yet another bag of nuts of his meds.
    Easily this could have gone sideways especially considering Jones was acting erratic and unreasonable as he did to start (his choice of words and manner of delivery).
    I'm not LEO, but for clarity are you asking what we citizens should do if we know that it's the police chief, or if we don't know and find out later?
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  3. #3
    Senior Member Array rolyat63's Avatar
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    While I do not agree with his delivery I do despise to be stopped at the door for a receipt. The last time I was in WM I was asked for my receipt for a large ticket item 200-300 bucks. I politely refused, she insisted... I went to CS and showed them my receipt while getting my money back. I bought my hard drive elsewhere...

    Unfortunately, WM and other retailers have to worry about theft from both sides of the fence: customers and employees. Sometimes in conspiracy together, hence the fact you just walked away from the register is not an indicator that you did actually pay. So, I prefer to shop elsewhere.

    The fact he was LEO shouldn't make a hill of beans, he was not on duty, just a patron. Still no reason for him to berate the employee that was doing their job. OMO
    rolyat63
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  4. #4
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Sorry Paaiyan, I guess I could have been more clear....I was typing and talking on the phone at once.

    After some further thought, I have come to the conclusion that my question is stupid.

    At the end of the day even if the person had been recognized by the store greeter or the reported staff (i.e. Loss Prevention), the condition of care should remain same.
    Disengage, dial 911, take good mental notes toward description and direction of travel...Await the cavalry to come in and do the heavy lifting.

    So on that note, do disregard my addendum item.

    Thanks!

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  5. #5
    VIP Member Array paaiyan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rolyat63 View Post
    While I do not agree with his delivery I do despise to be stopped at the door for a receipt. The last time I was in WM I was asked for my receipt for a large ticket item 200-300 bucks. I politely refused, she insisted... I went to CS and showed them my receipt while getting my money back. I bought my hard drive elsewhere...

    Unfortunately, WM and other retailers have to worry about theft from both sides of the fence: customers and employees. Sometimes in conspiracy together, hence the fact you just walked away from the register is not an indicator that you did actually pay. So, I prefer to shop elsewhere.

    The fact he was LEO shouldn't make a hill of beans, he was not on duty, just a patron. Still no reason for him to berate the employee that was doing their job. OMO
    You just can't make up your mind can you?

    Still no reason for him to berate the employee that was doing their job.
    OK so you agree the employee was just doing their job.

    I politely refused, she insisted... I went to CS and showed them my receipt while getting my money back.
    But you refuse to allow that employee to do their job, and then ask for your money back because you can't stand them doing it?

    Thanks for the clarification Janq, and no worries. I can't type and talk on the phone at the same time. I either end up typing what I'm saying on the phone, or saying what I'm typing. Agreed with your most recent statements.
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  6. #6
    Member Array alafan's Avatar
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    Thay are doing their job. Whats the big deal about showing your receipt. Not like thay are tring to search you or anything?

  7. #7
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    They take your money then in appreciation show you how much they trust you..... . Just dont spend money there

  8. #8
    Senior Member Array rolyat63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paaiyan View Post
    You just can't make up your mind can you?
    I thought I was clear. There are three paragraphs in my reply...If I was inconsistent or unclear my apologies. Be more pointed about where you feel I was inconsistent or not sufficiently clear and I can elaborate.





    OK so you agree the employee was just doing their job.
    Yep but I don't like the job the gatekeeper is doing..so I did do as WM asked: I showed them I had indeeed paid for the merchandise as I got a refund. You may note I said it was the last time I was there. Key word: last time.




    But you refuse to allow that employee to do their job, and then ask for your money back because you can't stand them doing it?
    That employee could not return my money so I went to one that could and did. It's not that I "can't stand it" but like the gatekeeper agreed that once I pay at the register for the merchandise I have in my possesion it is MINE. So I returned it. If they thought I stole something they could have called the law, that's their right and responisibility to the shareholders.

    So, as azchezy so succintly said...

    They take your money then in appreciation show you how much they trust you..... . Just dont spend money there
    ETA: 1) Additional Clarity - I despise that WM has an employee doing thisnot the employee.
    2) Further, as far as the article from the OP says that they only want to see the receipt for items not in their bags, I seem to recall that those items are id'd by a colored tape which clearly denotes purchased item. BLUF: Once I pay it's my stuff.
    Last edited by rolyat63; December 29th, 2010 at 06:30 PM. Reason: more clarity
    rolyat63
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  9. #9
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    I have no problem showing a receipt for my purchases,There are way too many people in this world that think stealing is OK.Usually the people that get bent out of shape are the ones that are trying to hide something.
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  10. #10
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    I have no problem showing a receipt for my purchases,There are way too many people in this world that think stealing is OK.Usually the people that get bent out of shape are the ones that are trying to hide something.
    I will have to disagree with you on this one.
    The only store I show my receipt at when I'm leaving are those that require you to do so as a condition of membership. Otherwise, sod off. I will not stop, nor be detained if I have committed no crime. Detainment will be by a LEO, not some employee of Mega Mart. If you don't like it, call a LEO. You better be right though, and not accuse me of stealing when I haven't.

    Biker

  11. #11
    Distinguished Member Array Black Knight's Avatar
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    I believe that Chief Jones needs to be served an arrest warrant for disorderly conduct and/or disturbing the peace. He could have refused without creating a scene, he could have asked to see a manager. Instead he goes off like a madman. Certainly not the level headed person who should be occupying his position.

  12. #12
    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
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    "He allegedly swore at the door greeter, walked past her without showing her the receipt," said Wheelright.

    Jones allegedly shouted extreme profanity at both the elderly woman and the male employee standing in the entrance. Police say he also threatened to injure one of the loss prevention employees, and once Harrisville officers arrived, he became even more aggravated-- and continued to yell and swear at them. He also refused to tell the officers who he was.
    Taking out whatever his anger and frustration is on a 70 year old lady working as a WalMart greeter shows an unacceptable lack of character for a person in his position. Time to say bye-bye to the Chief. He's showing signs of being a loose cannon.

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array goldshellback's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Knight View Post
    I believe that Chief Jones needs to be served an arrest warrant for disorderly conduct and/or disturbing the peace. He could have refused without creating a scene, he could have asked to see a manager. Instead he goes off like a madman. Certainly not the level headed person who should be occupying his position.
    Is that what is SOP for that kind of behavior for anyone who does what this Chief did? Whatever the proper result is it should be what ANYBODY would face.....perhaps even MORE SO due to the trust and authority placed upon him and his position.
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  14. #14
    Member Array LeftofMars's Avatar
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    What he did was just wrong. Seems they really do need to look at him being in charge.

    On the Walmart issue in general. I look at that as they don't post that I can't carry in their store. They sell me cartridges at a good price, along with other things. Some of my LGS won't allow me to carry, so if Walmart wants to see a receipt before I wheel a big ticket item out of the store I'm OK with that.
    "Someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back."
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  15. #15
    Senior Member Array rolyat63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    I have no problem showing a receipt for my purchases,There are way too many people in this world that think stealing is OK.Usually the people that get bent out of shape are the ones that are trying to hide something.
    You question my integrity for no cause, nope I don't like it. I don't know of many folks that don't dislike to have their integrity questioned. You may find it fine and be willing to have it questioned for the sake of shopping at one place or another for whatever reason you choose but I find your over generalized sentiment misguided. I'll refrain from futher comment to steer clear of making it appear as a personal affront to you but you can rest assured I have nothing to hide.
    rolyat63
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