ATF source confirms ‘walking’ guns to Mexico to ‘pad’ statistics

ATF source confirms ‘walking’ guns to Mexico to ‘pad’ statistics

This is a discussion on ATF source confirms ‘walking’ guns to Mexico to ‘pad’ statistics within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-i...pad-statistics...

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Thread: ATF source confirms ‘walking’ guns to Mexico to ‘pad’ statistics

  1. #1
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    ATF source confirms ‘walking’ guns to Mexico to ‘pad’ statistics



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    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    I saw this coming.

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    Member Array Deuce130's Avatar
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    I'm confused. I read both articles, but still unsure of the point or reasoning behind it. What exactly is the author getting at? What does " walking them across" mean and what's the scandal? Serious question. Sounds pretty corrupt, though.

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    "walking them across" seems to refer to someone taking "assault" weapons from the US to Mexico where they can then be traced back to the US. Then you get numbers like "70% of weapons recovered from BGs in Mexico that are traceable can be traced back to the US". Then you get people calling for assault weapons bans.

    Wow, this will be fun to watch if it is true.
    We're all in favor of reducing violent crime. It's just that pro-gunners have a method that is proven effective. Anti-gunners don't.
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    Senior Member Array Zsnake's Avatar
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    Won't open for me....anyone else having trouble?

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    Still working for me...
    We're all in favor of reducing violent crime. It's just that pro-gunners have a method that is proven effective. Anti-gunners don't.
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    John Moses Browning day is January 24th, 2011

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zsnake View Post
    Won't open for me....anyone else having trouble?
    Yep, the link is broke or the Apple servers are still down from their recent iOS App Store deployment.
    “Monsters are real and so are ghosts. They live inside of us, and sometimes they win.”
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    Senior Member Array Phillep Harding's Avatar
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    ( Some popups there. Browser settings might block it.)

    There are so many possible laws and regulations being broken there. This could be fun to watch.

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    Here is the text:

    “Coming next will be more info on what the agents refer to as the Phoenix ATF office ‘walking across’ ARs and AKs to pad their statistics,” this column reported on Monday, citing a December reference to allegations made on the CleanUpATF.org forum that approval/direction was given for “more than 500 AR-15 type rifles from Tucson and Phoenix cases to be ‘walked’ to Mexico.”

    As we’ve previously discussed, CleanUpATF is run by a group of Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco Firearms and Explosives employees who formed “a non-profit organization dedicated to returning integrity, accountability and decency to the management of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE or "ATF").”

    Following my Monday column, I was contacted by an investigative reporter wanting to learn more, and inquiring about my willingness to share sources. I put those wheels in motion because I believe it’s important to break this story beyond the reach I’m accustomed to these articles having. The important thing is getting the truth out.

    Here’s the relevant excerpt from my communication with a confirmed source within the Bureau and with other colleagues in on the exchange, part of the fact-finding process I want to share with readers here:

    Here's what I'm trying to determine:

    Are firearms really being "walked across the border" per the CUATF posting?

    Might it be disinformation posted to discredit anyone passing it along?

    Could it be a trap by management, that is, controlled information disclosed to identify who is passing it along?

    Is it scuttlebutt coming from credible sources?

    Is it verifiable in any way?

    I understand [Source name redacted] does not know me and may be wary about extending himself beyond [Contact name redacted]. I can respect that. By the same token, please note I have not shared any info with [Reporter name redacted] beyond telling him I passed his contact info along to an insider who may be able to give him more information. I would not post a word that has not been vetted and approved, and absolutely will not disclose any sources without being specifically authorized by that person.

    [Source name redacted], please advise how you would like to proceed, if at all.

    One of the participating recipients, Mike Vanderboegh of Sipsey Street Irregulars, picks up the story from here:

    Well, here's what a solid source within ATF says about this story this morning:

    "It's true. Pure fact verified. Ongoing inv(estigation) I can't discuss."

    Further, Vanderboegh independently corroborates additional information provided to me by another source:

    In a related development, the CUATF site was apparently hacked last night.

    The information I have says “Unexplained MAYBE viral or induced by outside sources.”

    One other point to bring up—while speculation was introduced on CleanUpATF.org that one of the “walked” guns may have been involved in the death of a Border Patrol officer, at this point I have nothing to validate this. I have been informed some journalists are working on following up on what’s been described to me as “discrepancies” in that story, but can’t predict the outcome we should expect.

    At this point I can only renew a call for something I’ve been advocating for a long time now: Congressional oversight hearings of ATF.

    My other motive is to get this information out there in the light for others with superior experience, skills and resources to follow up on. Whether or not they will is also something I can’t predict.

    UPDATE: See follow-up article, "More information on ATF ‘walking’ guns across Mexican border."
    Info from the link at the bottom of the previous quote:

    I’ve just been provided some additional details. The essence of what I’ve been told:

    ATF’s Phoenix office allowed the guns to go across the border.
    The ATF office in Mexico was denied permission to share this information with their Mexican counterparts. Believing this was wrong, they went over the heads of the Phoenix office and requested permission directly from headquarters in DC.
    The higher-ups sided with the Phoenix decision to withhold the information from Mexican authorities.
    That would make this an international law enforcement incident, would it not?

    On a related matter, efforts are still underway to get to the truth about the origins of the seized firearm used in the killing of the Border Patrol officer. The relevant questions for investigators:

    What does ATF trace data show?
    Were any prior traces ever run on this particular firearm, and what did they show?
    Enquiring minds want to know. Developing…
    We're all in favor of reducing violent crime. It's just that pro-gunners have a method that is proven effective. Anti-gunners don't.
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    John Moses Browning day is January 24th, 2011

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    Perhaps so they can drum up support for these "emergency" measures?

    http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmem...ifle_sales.php
    We're all in favor of reducing violent crime. It's just that pro-gunners have a method that is proven effective. Anti-gunners don't.
    ---
    John Moses Browning day is January 24th, 2011

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    Well,
    all I can say is that I can't believe the Government hasn't thought of this a long time ago, in an attempt to get rid of guns.

    I would submit that in the interest of NAFTA,(North American Free Trade Agreement), they should allow all firearms manufacturers in the USA to be able to sell as many firearms to the good citizens of Mexico so this problem will go away.
    (They, the Mexicans will have all the firearms they need, and they won't need ours).

    Yes this is satire^^^^^

    as this would never happen, but it would solve the problem




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