Us Consular Employee in Pakistan Charged with Murder, After Shooting 2 Armed Robbers

This is a discussion on Us Consular Employee in Pakistan Charged with Murder, After Shooting 2 Armed Robbers within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Does anybody know of a support fund/site set up for Davis so we can help speak up & help him however we can?...

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Thread: Us Consular Employee in Pakistan Charged with Murder, After Shooting 2 Armed Robbers

  1. #31
    Senior Member Array McPatrickClan's Avatar
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    Does anybody know of a support fund/site set up for Davis so we can help speak up & help him however we can?

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  3. #32
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    I knew it...

    It's a very busy work day for me as I prep to be off the rest of the week, but the following just updated at ABCNews.com and I thought to carry it over here.
    No time to discuss further.

    U.S. Officials: Raymond Davis Is CIA Contractor, Ex-Blackwater
    American Held in Pakistan in Deadly Shooting Provided Security for CIA

    By MATTHEW COLE
    Feb. 21, 2011


    Two U.S. officials say Raymond Davis is a former Blackwater contractor providing security services for the CIA. He has been detained by Pakistan since he was involved in a deadly shooting there.

    Raymond A. Davis, the U.S. official at the heart of a tense stand-off with the Pakistan government, was working for the CIA as an independent contractor when he shot and killed two Pakistani men, according to two senior U.S. intelligence officials.

    In the fullest account yet of how an American official came to be held for the deadly shooting in Pakistan, three current officials have told ABC News who Davis was working for and what he was doing on January 27th when the incident occurred.

    According to a current senior U.S. official and a senior intelligence consultant who worked with Davis, the 36-year-old American is a former Blackwater contractor was posted to Lahore as part of the CIA's Global Response Staff, or GRS, a unit of security and bodyguards assigned to war zones and troubled countries such as Afghanistan and Pakistan. Members of the GRS most often accompany CIA case officers, who meet with clandestine sources.

    Davis and a group of fellow security officers lived in a safehouse in Lahore. The CIA keeps safehouses for security personnel in an effort to limit the ability for militants to track their movements, the intelligence contractor said.

    On Jan. 27, Davis left the safehouse and conducted an "area familiarization route," according to the senior U.S. official. He drove through various Lahore neighborhoods for several hours. It was during his route, two U.S. officials say, that Davis stopped at an A.T.M. and possibly drew the attention of two Pakistani men on a motorcycle.

    Davis has told the police in Lahore that the two men were attempting to rob him when he fired several rounds from his Glock handgun hitting them both. Davis fired multiple rounds from inside his car, killing one man in the street, while the second died later from his injuries.

    Davis then called for help from several other CIA security officers who shared his Lahore safehouse, according to the U.S. official and the intelligence consultant. As they arrived near the intersection, they accidentally hit a Pakistani bicyclist, the two officials said. The bicyclist later died of his injuries. Davis' colleagues were unable to get to Davis before the police arrested him. They left the scene and returned to their safehouse...

    The full story can be found at; http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/raymon...ry?id=12964133
    Now this update is what makes the _most sense_.

    Again normally state dept. personnel and CIA agency personnel working from a given embassy are not provided arms. Those CIA in specific who are armed are enabled as so for a specific reason as relevant to their own tasking, which is narrow to that end not generic.
    As fact many CIA personnel do many different things without need nor assignment of a firearm, in country or abroad. While normal sidearm issue/selection has been Glock for some time now, not an M9. The CIA is para-military (like the FBI, Treasury, US Marshalls, tec.) not bound by military conditions of equipment selection and outfiiting.
    It's agents specifically as armed 'operators' run what makes the most sense for a task (!), being flexible shooters not singular to this weapon system is what I learned on so that's the only bike I'll ride because it's 'familiar' types. That's how average shooter civilians and non-specialized LEOs will think to train and outfit themself. Which is fine for much of their world and situational experiences.

    Also his response upon contact of returning fire through the windshield, rather than thinking to panic and duck down like an average person, along with the results of that response (all threats stopped!) in addition to his very tight groupings as shown weeks ago at his windshield glass...Are not average typical. This was obvious, or should have been.
    Further his use of what is now reported to be a Glock (!), rather than a Beretta M9, also makes much more logical and logistical sense while being in kind with norms.

    Now it's a matter of is or isn't he to be deemed a 'spy' by Pakistan, which directly relates to how he'll be treated and judged (too late/visual to make this a quiet release) by his captors.
    Confirmed to be a covert agent he's already in hot water. It's just a matter of to what degree temperature and how long he'll be left to boil.
    Depending on both what he knows of importance AND who knows him, of importance, his handling will be specific.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  4. #33
    Ex Member Array JOHNSMITH's Avatar
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    I hope none of his sources or friends set him up. Intelligence work is a pretty messy business.

  5. #34
    Distinguished Member Array LanceORYGUN's Avatar
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    All of the earlier news reports said that the gun was a Beretta. Yet now, it has magically transformed into a Glock?

    Which media account is accurate?

    .

  6. #35
    Distinguished Member Array LanceORYGUN's Avatar
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    Well, this CIA contractor Raymond Davis is now free. The USA paid over $ 1 Million to each of the two families of the two men that he killed. And that secured his release.

    So holding him appears to have mainly been a shakedown of our government for cash.

    Bottom line, though, is that thank God he is finally out of the Pakistani criminal system. If he had been sentenced and stayed long, I seriously doubt he would have done very well in prison.

    With the payment of the money, the court then acquitted Davis of committing any crimes. Strange system of justice, no? But it appears to have been the only way to solve this impasse.

    Here is a link to a full news report about his release:

    The Associated Press: 'Blood money' frees CIA contractor in Pakistan



  7. #36
    Senior Member Array GoBigOrange's Avatar
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    very interesting story from start to finish. Glad to hear how it turned out.

  8. #37
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    SOP.

    $700K to each of two families totaling $1.4M...Which is a nothing as actual against money that the CIA is well reported to regularly disburse to informants and foreign national players who assist them, including even moving entire families to the US and granting them citizenship as exchange.
    See for historical example Vietnam as well as post Pinochet Chile and the Iraq war as recent. SOP.

    'Blood Money' Deal Frees CIA Contractor Raymond Davis From Pakistan
    Lawyer: About $1.4 Million Paid to Families of Shooting Victims; U.S. Official Says Davis No Longer in Pakistan
    By NICK SCHIFRIN, MATTHEW COLE and LEE FERRAN
    March 16, 2011

    ...Davis was released from detention after around $700,000 was paid to each family of the two men allegedly shot and killed by Davis, totaling around $1.4 million, a lawyer involved in the case told ABC News.

    Officials told ABC News families of the victims appeared in a Lahore court today to say that they have pardoned him. A U.S. official said it was a "Pakistani decision" to release Davis and he is no longer in the country.

    Payment of money to the families of victims in crimes for securing acquittals for the accused has significant legal precedent in Pakistan, a custom loosely translated as paying "blood money."

    "The families of the victims of the January 27 incident in Lahore have pardoned Raymond Davis," U.S. Ambassador to Pakistan Cameron Munter said in a statement. "I am grateful for their generosity. I wish to express, once again, my regret for the incident and my sorrow at the suffering it caused."...

    Source - CIA Contractor Raymond Davis Freed in Pakistan, Heading Home - ABC News
    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  9. #38
    Distinguished Member Array LanceORYGUN's Avatar
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    The Associated Press is saying that the lawyer for the families is claiming a total payment of $2.34 million.

    Blood money' frees CIA contractor in Pakistan

    (AP) 1 hour ago

    LAHORE, Pakistan (AP) A lawyer for the families of two Pakistani men killed by an American CIA contractor says the United States paid $2.34 million in "blood money" to secure the man's release.

    Raja Irshad says 19 relatives appeared in court Wednesday to accept the money.

    He says each told the court "they were ready to accept the blood money deal without pressure and would have no objection if the court acquitted Raymond Davis."
    The Associated Press is also reporting protests and small riots over the release of Davis:

    The Associated Press: Release of CIA contractor prompts Pakistan clashes


    Fox News and CBS are also both reporting the payment figure to be $2.34 million:

    'Blood Money' Helps Free CIA Contractor Accused of Murder in Pakistan - FoxNews.com

    "Blood money": Pakistan frees CIA contractor - CBS News

  10. #39
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Even still @ $2M that too is pocket change, especially against the bigger picture.

    Bottom line is he's released, free and folk got paid off just as was predicted and expected.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  11. #40
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    All fine and good, except, either he did or did not have diplomatic immunity. If he did not have immunity then I am all for paying the money and getting the fellow out.

    If Pakistan reneged on immunity, I'm all for paying the money to get the guy out BUT their government officials must face some sort of negative consequence; at a minimum expulsion of a couple of their own higher ranking folk.

    One way or another the government of Pakistan has to be made to understand that they can't allow such mistreatment of someone they granted immunity too, if they did.

    Now for all we know things have been handled quietly in the background and so forth, but from what is public it sure looks like the Pakistan government owes us big time.

  12. #41
    Distinguished Member Array LanceORYGUN's Avatar
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    Hopyard:

    It is Pakistan that is in the driver's seat, not us. Pakistan provides the only land route for us to supply our forces in Afghanistan. They could shut down our access at any time, and our forces would be cut off.

    The only other supply routes are through the air. However, if you know much about the history of this war, we have had signficant problems with both nearby Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan in operating air bases there to supply Afghanistan. Uzbekistan actually kicked us out of their country at one point in time, causing logistical problems. Kyrgyzstan came very close to doing the same to us. But when it was discovered that the Chinese were secretly offering them $3 Billion in US dollars to shut down our big Manas air base there, we were able to negotiate keeping the base for now.

    Our troops in Afghanistan are in a very precarious position. For we have to rely on cooperation from these fundamentalist Islamic nations in order to support our troops. And they could turn on us at any time, leaving our soldiers cut off and surrounded.

    .

  13. #42
    Ex Member Array JOHNSMITH's Avatar
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    Oh what a tangled web we weave.

  14. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by LanceORYGUN View Post
    Hopyard:

    It is Pakistan that is in the driver's seat, not us. Pakistan provides the only land route for us to supply our forces in Afghanistan. They could shut down our access at any time, and our forces would be cut off.

    The only other supply routes are through the air. However, if you know much about the history of this war, we have had signficant problems with both nearby Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan in operating air bases there to supply Afghanistan. Uzbekistan actually kicked us out of their country at one point in time, causing logistical problems. Kyrgyzstan came very close to doing the same to us. But when it was discovered that the Chinese were secretly offering them $3 Billion in US dollars to shut down our big Manas air base there, we were able to negotiate keeping the base for now.

    Our troops in Afghanistan are in a very precarious position. For we have to rely on cooperation from these fundamentalist Islamic nations in order to support our troops. And they could turn on us at any time, leaving our soldiers cut off and surrounded.

    .
    Well, they are indeed in the driver's seat from the point of view you have presented. Still, diplomatic immunity is not something to be breached without consequences. A drone maybe to the house of the involved judge? A bit harsh but grabbing diplomats is an act of war.

  15. #44
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    Have we established he is a diplomat? If he was, I'd have thought we would've heard of it by now. It seems to be he is valuable as an intelligence asset, and that's why he was worth $2m. Murdering some individual in a foreign country where we have zero jurisdiction would only serve to recruit even more terrorists and cause more anti-American kidnappings and arrests.

  16. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul34 View Post
    Have we established he is a diplomat? If he was, I'd have thought we would've heard of it by now. It seems to be he is valuable as an intelligence asset, and that's why he was worth $2m. Murdering some individual in a foreign country where we have zero jurisdiction would only serve to recruit even more terrorists and cause more anti-American kidnappings and arrests.
    He was said in many news stories to be a diplomat, but of course none of can know with certainty. As for my comment about a drone hit on the Pak judge, of course that is a foolish idea, but at the same time there have to consequences for breaching diplomatic immunity, assuming that part of the story was true.

    Glad I'm not the one deciding what those consequences should be.

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