UNKNOWN: But a good event to discuss

This is a discussion on UNKNOWN: But a good event to discuss within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2011/...ery-shot-back/ regory M. George, a jewelry salesman, was held up at gunpoint with a “large handgun” as he was opening the trunk of his vehicle ...

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Thread: UNKNOWN: But a good event to discuss

  1. #1
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    UNKNOWN: But a good event to discuss

    http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2011/...ery-shot-back/

    regory M. George, a jewelry salesman, was held up at gunpoint with a “large handgun” as he was opening the trunk of his vehicle outside Thalheimer’s Jewelers at 3200 U.S. 41 North, according to the police report.

    George told police that two male suspects wearing hood demanded the contents of his trunk, which included luggage full of jewelry, the report said.

    Thalheimer, owner of Thalheimer’s Jewelers, told police he watched the robbery occur. As the suspects attempted to flee in a black Ford Taurus, Thalheimer used his Dodge Ram pickup to ram their vehicle, a black Ford Taurus, the report said.

    Thalheimer, owner of a Fort Myers defensive gun school, then got out of his truck and pointed a .38 revolver at the suspects in the Taurus, according to the report.

    At first, two suspects got out of the vehicle, Thalheimer told police, and ran across the street to a vehicle awaiting them, a burgundy Chevrolet with Florida tag 145YSV.

    A third suspect got out of the Ford and faced Thalheimer with a weapon, the report said.

    Thalheimer told deputies he fired a shot at that suspect, who then fled across the street with the others.

    According to the report, one of the first suspects to leave the Taurus then fired three shots back at Thalheimer, who returned four more shots at the SUV.
    This is still under investigation and I personally hope no charges are filled against Mr Thalheimer, but there is some grey area. The crime had already happened and the suspects were fleeing. I don't think anybody's life was in danger and that point and the resulting shootout occurred in a fairly populated part of town.

    Video interviewing Mr Thalheimer:
    http://www.naplesnews.com/videos/det...t-hand-account

    IMO he shouldn't have told his story to the world, especially without a lawyer present. This is a serious situation. But, I like to learn from others experience. I'm a little bit more of a wuss, I would have just been a good witness and called 911 from the safety of my car.

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    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    That will depend on area statutes. In some areas deadly force is allowed to prevent a felony and does not require fear of GBI or death. The crime was not over if they were still in the process of escaping.

    Sounds like pros. A backup with a second vehicle at the location and another switch vehicle farther away.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

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    No doubt these robbers were the real deal. I should know the statutes because I live here, but in this case I'm not sure. If I was in the same situation I would have offered to carry the jewelery to their car for them.
    If charges are filed (and I do hope they are not) I'll update the thread.

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    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    It appears that Florida puts a few more restrictions on it.


    The 2010 Florida Statutes

    Title XLVI
    CRIMES Chapter 782
    HOMICIDE View Entire Chapter

    782.02Justifiable use of deadly force.
    —The use of deadly force is justifiable when a person is resisting any attempt to murder such person or to commit any felony upon him or her or upon or in any dwelling house in which such person shall be.

    History.—ss. 4, 5, ch. 1637, 1868; RS 2378; ch. 4967, 1901; s. 1, ch. 4964, 1901; GS 3203; RGS 5033; CGL 7135; s. 66, ch. 74-383; s. 1, ch. 75-24; s. 45, ch. 75-298; s. 1197, ch. 97-102.


    It could be argued that he did not exercise deadly force until it was used against him.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

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    From his video, he said he only attempted to ram the robbers car and retreat. His car ended up getting stuck and he had no choice but to "Fight". He is also the owner of the establishment and the Castle Doctrine could apply, though this happened in the parking lot.

    Too much grey area for my comfort level, but he's not in jail yet.

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    I'm sympathetic to the jewelry store owner. This was a direct assault on his livelihood and business - it's hard to know how one would react in that kind of situation. He probably "should" have simply called the police, been a good witness, and filed the insurance claim. A suitcase full of jewelry can be replaced, his life cannot be. I like to think I would not have done what he did, and I prep myself on how to react to situations, but you just never know. Hopefully no charges are filed.

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    I wouldn't care if the business man killed all of them, but, he made some grave errors in my opinion. They robbery was over, they were leaving, yet he chose to confront them. Now again, I'd prefer he killed 'em all, but he exposed himself and his employee to untold danger and financial liability. The jewelry should be insured. No matter if it was or not, its not worth the life of a good guy.
    Then again, I wasn't there, and I still applaud the spirit of the business man.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    As the followup information indicated all three SUV's were rented on the east coast of Florida. Most of the individuals committing these robberies on the east coast of the state have been described as hispanic males and all have been armed. Gutsy move on the part of the store owner but I question as others have the advisability of his actions and his use of a 5 shot revolver to confront multiple BG's.
    "Violence is seldom the answer, but when it is the answer it is the only answer".

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    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Let's see if I have this right....... ram a vehicle with 4 armed people who just robbed someone in a parking lot while they were on their way out of the scene with no one harmed at that point , and you have a 5 shot gun & apparently no way to reload ? That is, before he decided to play Rambo. Next time, maybe he'll use some exploding arrows and a Bowie knife.

    Uh, I'ld call this stupid. Let the insurance handle it and the LEO"s catch the guys, ..
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    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    ! ^^

    Spot on Eagle.
    That's pretty much how I'd read it too earlier today via this more detailed link...

    http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2011/...ery-shot-back/

    Dude teaches "defensive shooting tactics " and yet he keeps just a revolver (5 shots!), with no reloads, and he thinks to interject himself into a fleeing post crime concern having no backup and nothing but a half capacity (as compared to most anything else!) pocket pistol while also being clearly in th open having nothing but car metal concealment.
    Oh and he planned to take down four men with just five rounds at hand.

    He raced toward their car, rammed it with his truck and within seconds was in the middle of a shootout, taking on more than four men...

    Thalheimer had nothing at stake financially. Still, he risked his life to stop the armed men...

    ...Thalheimer fired all five rounds from the pocket pistol he keeps in his truck, he said. The culprits, he said, fired several more rounds, including gunshots that came at him from another getaway car across the street, he said.

    ...The store owner took action, ramming the suspects’ black Ford Taurus sedan in the driver’s side with his white pickup truck. All of the air bags in the car deployed.

    Thalheimer planned to back away, but his truck was stuck, entangled in their car, he said.

    “At that point, I didn’t want to get executed sitting on my gun,” Thalheimer said.

    He got out of his truck.

    “There was nowhere to run. I had to deal with it,” he said.

    He and the suspects, who were also wearing bandanas, exchanged gunfire, Thalheimer said.

    Thalheimer fired all five rounds from the pocket pistol he keeps in his truck, he said. The culprits, he said, fired several more rounds, including gunshots that came at him from another getaway car across the street, he said.

    Thalheimer said he couldn’t describe the suspects because he was concerned more about shooting the armed men and avoiding being shot.
    This is the kind of guy who takes a broke down dinghy and some oil barrels out to sea in hopes of taking on 'Jaws'.
    WT... !?

    As far as tactics goes, he might want to take a class himself. : \

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    Some people run from gunfire, some people run to the gunfire .......................... and some people just monday morning armchair quarterback the actions of those involved in the gunfight.

    I say good job Mr. Thalheimer.


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    Senior Member Array Chad Rogers's Avatar
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    I get a kick out of guys who are "Combat Masters", but have never actually been in any combat.

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    I applaud his effort. Sounds like he made the 5 shots work, he lived, they fled with possibly one hit. In the definition of defensive, he was successful in that he defended and overcame sending his attackers fleeing. A couple of things stand out here; a five shot revolver is adequate most COMMON encounters, and, I bet he wished for more ammo in the conflict.

    Should he let the men go? I say it's a matter of personal principle. Some people have it, some don't, he did. The value of the jewelry is not the point.

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    This guy did some stupid things and made some really bad decisions. When the threat was over, they were leaving, he escalated things by going after them. Best thing he could have done was get the tag number, be a good witness and make sure the victims were ok. He prolonged the danger and could have easily endangered many innocent people by going after them.

    He did not handle this right.
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    I too have mixed feelings about this jeweler. Tactically, definitely not well thought out. Highly risky in every sense. Dare I say... foolhardy??!
    But as Glockman noted, I believe his actions weren't about dollars and cents...but about much bigger things... 'Alamo' kinds of things.
    We all have things for which we'd fight and die (e.g. family/liberty). Apparently for this jeweler, this gang had crossed some line in the sand.
    Really glad that no innocents were hurt.
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