Walmart employees fired after disarming gunman.

This is a discussion on Walmart employees fired after disarming gunman. within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by Janq It is and has been very well known, as well as reported, that not just Wal-Mart but most every retailer in ...

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Thread: Walmart employees fired after disarming gunman.

  1. #46
    Senior Member Array Tala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    It is and has been very well known, as well as reported, that not just Wal-Mart but most every retailer in America today modern and current has had has had fro ages a standing policy for employees as related to product theft to NOT engage such persons and to NOT attempt to enforce local laws as related to same (!). Leave that work to the police who are trained and equipped to intersect with and handle such persons, who very often are desperate and by that desperation have and will do whatever it takes to accomplish their goals including escape (!).

    We have had _many multiple_ threads on this through the past to recent; Very often toward both Wal-Mart as well as Home Depot, and Dominos pizza delivery drivers.
    By now this should be common knowledge, especially here in this sub-area of all places .net.
    THE difference is, that a guy walking out of WalMart with a laptop under his arm USUALLY hopes to slip out unnoticed or simply run for it, knowing that the LP can't follow him. It's kinda unusual for your average joe shoplifer to go in and stick up the cash office at gunpoint. That's exactly what happens to pizza drivers though, they are generally threatened PERSONALLY.
    Yes, I am fully aware that I will be fired should I have to shoot someone while on the clock. Does that mean I'm gonna let them shoot me? Take the pizza I don't care, it's not mine anyway (that's still theft of the company's property) but point a gun at me and well......that's a whole nother ballgame. We are no longer talking product theft at that point.
    I can imagine that's what the WalMart guys would say too. We can always get another job.



    I dunno about you guys' WalMarts, but ours have little LP offices near the main doors, FOR detaining suspects until the real LEO arrive. They are not "just a coat closet" as someone else suggested, though they are no larger, but rather death boxes with the wrong criminal. I couldn't tell you the specifics about how you get someone into the box or who is supposed to be in there with them, but when the cops come that's where they go to get the thief. The little detainment closets are no secret.
    I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them. -- John Wayne as John B. Books in "The Shootist"

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  3. #47
    Senior Member Array dripster's Avatar
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    I don't get it, the guys were LP for the store; apprehended a suspected shoplifting and brought him into the LP office for further processing. The suspect then produces a weapon and said LP officers were in fear for their lives and had to disarm him. Was the company expecting the officers to get shot and let him stroll out the door? Sometimes the threat of liability can make all those atta boys turn into a oh **** scenario!
    One more step and it's on!

  4. #48
    VIP Member Array friesepferd's Avatar
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    I have a friend who works security at walmart. He is allowed to politiely ask someone he just saw steal something to wait, but thats about all he can do.
    I don't think I could stand to have that job.
    Wo die Notwehr aufhört, fängt der Mord an
    (Murder begins where self-defense ends)
    Georg Büchner

  5. #49
    Distinguished Member Array Jason Storm's Avatar
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    Personally, I rarely go to Walmart. Too crowded, too much parking, and not the ideal place to buy self-defense ammo. If I was looking for self-defense ammo, it be the gun store.

  6. #50
    VIP Member Array friesepferd's Avatar
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    I certainly am not going to wallymart for my gun stuff, but I go grocery shopping there about once a month.
    I may not agree with there polocies, but they do not post a sign, and they are convinient to shop at, so thats where I go.
    I have never found a grocery store that has the same beliefs and polocies that I would like to see.
    Wo die Notwehr aufhört, fängt der Mord an
    (Murder begins where self-defense ends)
    Georg Büchner

  7. #51
    Ex Member Array jaredpotts's Avatar
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    Oh great another one of these threads.....

    A bunch of people who do not know anything about the retail security profession, acting like they are subject matter experts. These employees were all terminated because they broke a policy and that policy as stated in AP09 (Walmart's Asset Protection policy). That policy is that once a shoplifter displays a weapon they are to immediately disengage and let the person leave. They were not fired for going hands on or taking the person to "a small room". That "small room" is for that exact use. Walmart allows and even recommends going hands on. The real problem here is that it got media attention and some corporate person decided it would be best for PR to terminate these associates. I know from experience if walmart PR thinks they can possibly get any bad media they will either write up or terminate the associates involved, If it stays quiet then nothing happens.

    As far as JANG's and many others comments about not apprehending, or going hands on. Every major retailer and most smaller ones have an LP or AP department. They all apprehend shoplifters, most of them go hands on, alot of them carry handcuffs. Some retailers in more dangerous places are armed with OC, Tasers, and firearms. The issue here is not the detainment or use of force as both of these are not only the industry standard but every state has laws that give merchants the right to detain people for a reasonable amount of time to conduct a theft investigation. These laws also grant both criminal and civil immunity to the retailers and their employees as long as they acted in compliance with state laws. In my state all we need is "reasonable suspicion" which is pretty much anything. Now keep in mind no company will stop someone with only suspicion, although it is permitted by state law it is not permitted by company policy. Any reputable retailer will make there employees follow the industry standard 6 elements.
    1. suspicious act.
    2. enter the department.
    3. select the merchandise
    4. conceal the merchandsise
    5. constant observation of the person
    6. Pass last point-of-sale and fail to pay for merchandise.

    After those steps are satisfied then you apprehend the shoplfter as they exit the store and take them to to the LP office where they are processed. Depending on the jurisdiction this may or may not include calling the police. In my area we do not unless they are uncooperative or committed a felony. We send all our "normal" shoplifts to the city attorney who in turn sends out criminal citations.

    As far as people saying that the "$200 piece of plastic and wires" is not worth apprehending, you have too look at the bigger picture. Thats one event, if a store did not apprehend people then they would go out of business. One of the main reasons people do not steal is they do not wanna get caught, take that consequence out of the picture then the only thing stopping people from stealing would be their morals. look at these numbers from the 22nd annual loss prevention survey from Hayes international. this survey includes 25 of the nations largest retailers.

    Shoplifting

    * Apprehensions: Survey participants apprehended 1,014,817 shoplifters in 2009, an increase of 16.8% from the prior year.
    * Recovery Dollars: For the 9th straight year, dollars recovered from shoplifting apprehensions increased. In 2009, dollar recoveries were in excess of $111 million, a slight increase of 1.0% over 2008's recovery dollars.
    * For the 13th consecutive year, dollars recovered from shoplifters where no apprehension was made ($29 million) increased. In 2009, this increase was 19.35%.
    * The average shoplifting case value in 2009 was $110.14, which was a decrease of 13.52% over 2008's average case value ($127.37).

    Employee Theft

    * One out of every 28.4 employees was apprehended for theft from their employer is 2009. (Based on comparison data of over 2.9 million employees.)
    * Apprehensions: Survey participants apprehended 70,409 dishonest employees in 2009, a decrease of 9.35%.
    * Recovery Dollars: Dollars recovered from dishonest employee apprehensions totaled over $51.3 million in 2009, a decrease of 15.71%.
    * The average dishonest employee case value in 2009 was $728.90, a 7.0% decrease over 2008's average case value ($783.88).

    The survey also estimates that only 3.15% of shoplifting incidents are stopped. therefor the total amount of loss from theft is $10-13 billion a year with approximately 200-270 million shoplifting incidents. They break it down further to say that every minute of every day an average of $19k-25.5k is stolen.

    Loss prevention is a necessary industry. Where do you think retailers make up for that money lost? they pass it on to you. Another study stated that the average family spent $400 more this holiday season then last year do to increased prices do to shrink (retail term for monies and merchandise lost).

    Sorry for the rant but people really need to think about the bigger picture before they criticize a very needed profession.

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