What would you have done?

This is a discussion on What would you have done? within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; YUKON The retired firefighter shot dead Tuesday by an off-duty Piedmont police officer at the officer's Yukon home was using a metal security system ...

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Thread: What would you have done?

  1. #1
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    What would you have done?

    YUKON The retired firefighter shot dead Tuesday by an off-duty Piedmont police officer at the officer's Yukon home was using a metal security system sign to attack him, Yukon city spokeswoman Klare Ly said.



    Devin Nemecek, 47, died about 8 a.m. Tuesday at 371 Sunrise Drive, the home shared by Jack Neumann, 37, and his wife and two children. Nemecek, who lived a few houses away on Sunrise, barged into Neumann's house as Neumann returned home from work.

    Nemecek used an ADT home security sign on a metal post to attack Neumann during the incident, and Neumann shot Nemecek after telling him to get back as the pair struggled with each other, Ly said. The sign is the type that typically is placed in a home's front yard to show a security system is used.

    Ly said she didn't know where the sign came from.

    Nemecek's son said his father was likely hallucinating and confused due to a low oxygen level and probably thought he was trying to enter his own home as he barged into Neumann's. Nemecek's son, Garrett Nemecek, 23, of Oklahoma City, said his father was injured fighting a fire two years ago and used an oxygen tank to help with lung and heart problems stemming from the incident.

    Devin Nemecek's injury happened Feb. 1, 2009, according to his workers' compensation claim. He sought compensation for respiratory and circulatory system ailments caused by dust, gases and fumes, but the claim was dismissed with prejudice Dec. 14, court records show.

    The Yukon city manager did not return telephone calls seeking details about Nemecek's injury and retirement.

    Ly would not say if Neumann was hurt in Tuesday's incident and referred questions to Neumann's attorney. She said she did not know who Neumann's attorney is.

    The local police union attorney did not return a call seeking comment Wednesday.

    Services for Nemecek are set for 2 p.m. Friday at LifeChurch.tv in Yukon.


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    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    A sad situation. Difficult to say, but it would seem that if low oxygen was causing hallucinations, that his H2H abilities would be very short lived due to same.
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    Well, when someone is swinging a metal sign at you, I'd probably have a hard time standing there debating what his problem was and deal with my own!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiram25 View Post
    Well, when someone is swinging a metal sign at you, I'd probably have a hard time standing there debating what his problem was and deal with my own!
    My sentiments he had a medical problem ok. But i dont know that all i know is a man is swinging a metal sign at me and my family is in danger.

    They did interview the son of the firefighter last night, he asked why the officer did not shoot to wound instead of kill.
    The son kept bringing up the officer's training, last time i checked most dont train to wound most train to stop the threat.

    But of course they did not bring that up but kept proclaiming how much of a victim the firefighter was. It was a bad deal i agree but you cannot blame the police officer or if it had been a normal person for defenidng there home, family, and life.
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    VIP Member Array Old School's Avatar
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    Tough situation but one of those sheet metal signs can cut just like a machete. The officer had every right to protect his family and himself.
    Last edited by Old School; April 21st, 2011 at 02:33 PM.
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    I feel sorry for Nemecek's son. Losing your father like that is traumatic. It has happend however and nothing can change it.

    However, if the son was placed into the same situation, I wonder what he would have done?

    Reason with an apparent sign weilding maniac? Doubtful. People often say they would do one thing and then do completely the opposite.
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    If he was prone to hallicination etc. then maybe he should have had somebody with him 24/7.I'm not gonna ask or try to figure out why somebody entered my home and is attacking me with a deadly weapon.Draw,command stop/freeze failure to obey command ,bang bang bang
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    Mr. Nemecek's oxygen level is real low now...don't attack an cop with a sign...I doubt the cop was left with any other choices.
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    What would I have done? I would have shot him. Sad situation but his medical problems are not a license to kill or maim others.
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    The sign is more effective for attack or defense than the company that supplied it. My opinion at least. shooting justified
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    The homeowner did what he had to do. Why does all this crazy stuff happen in OK?

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    Quote Originally Posted by wolf88 View Post
    They did interview the son of the firefighter last night, he asked why the officer did not shoot to wound instead of kill.
    The son kept bringing up the officer's training, last time i checked most dont train to wound most train to stop the threat.
    Not to mention a wounded person can still KILL YOU! People need to stop taking what they see on TV and the movies as gun gospel.
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    An attack by someone suffering hallucinations from hypoxic brain injury is like an attack by anyone else suffering delusions or even a rational person who mistakenly believes me to have killed one of his loved ones and is hell bent on revenge.

    The motive for the attack is irrelevant at the time, my only concern would be the safety of myself and my loved ones. I'm sure I would regret the necessity later, but that, frankly, goes for any shooting. I don't want to have to shoot anyone but I have accepted the fact that it may be necessary at some point. If I hadn't, I wouldn't own personal defense weapons.

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    To me, it's very sad that the firefighters disability may have been a factor which contributed to his death. Certainly it's a tragedy. I have nothing but the deepest sympathy for the family of the fallen firefighter.

    However, that being said, in terms of presenting the components of justifiable use of lethal force, the firefighter met all the criteria. He barged into a dwelling uninvited and which he had no legal right to be. He then turned to engage an innocent person (owner of said dwelling) with a deadly weapon, to wit "a metal pipe." (Also, as stated in another post, had the ADT sign which was attached to the metal pipe been made of aluminum, it could also slice and cut just as effectively as a machete). Clearly, the components which justifies use of lethal force, ability, opportunity, and jeopardy are all present at the same time, and thus the officers lethal response was warranted in this case, sad and tragic as it may be.

    While the off duty officer who shot him could have possibly intervened in a different way which may have resulted in not shooting the man, it is not required by law to attempt to use other methods when you are clearly faced with a lethal threat.

    When facing an immediate and otherwise unavoidable threat of death or grave injury, you are authorized to respond with immediate lethal force of your own. It doesn't matter if the situation could have been handled in a different manner which would or could have resulted in a successful conclusion without death. The law just doesn't place that kind of burden on the defender.

    So, while it is very sad, and tragic that this poor man lost his life, considering the nature of his disability, in my opinion, this appears to be a clean and justifiable shoot on the part of the off-duty officer. And one which may play hard on the officer dealing with emotionally in the aftermath.

    It is sad that a man who risked his life in a high risk occupation and became disabled through the occupational hazards of his job which may have been a contributing factor in leading to his death. However, these are the kind of things which often makes the decision to carry a gun such a moral dilemma.

    I am very sympathetic to the family of the firefighter for the tragedy. I hope they find some closure. I am also very sympathetic for the officer who shot him. I hope he doesn't have any lasting emotional struggle with his decision. It was clearly justified as far as I can determine.
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  16. #15
    JD
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    I'm sure this incident is tragic for all involved, but this image is just too good to use on those that feel a security system is enough...

    Nemecek used an ADT home security sign on a metal post to attack Neumann during the incident, and Neumann shot Nemecek after telling him to get back as the pair struggled with each other, Ly said. The sign is the type that typically is placed in a home's front yard to show a security system is used.

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