OK City Pharmacy Robbery Murder Trial

This is a discussion on OK City Pharmacy Robbery Murder Trial within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; The Ersland trial will begin on Monday, May 16. Last i heard it will be on television....

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Thread: OK City Pharmacy Robbery Murder Trial

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Sig 210's Avatar
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    The Ersland trial will begin on Monday, May 16. Last i heard it will be on television.

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  3. #17
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  4. #18
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    Everyone has an opinion, mine, you walk in my world pointing a weapon at me you deserv everything you recieve.
    packinnova likes this.
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  5. #19
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    The jury got this completely wrong, but its a good lesson. You have to convince a jury and excessive force can get you a "Guilty" verdict.
    I hope this is overturned during the appeal.

  6. #20
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    The jury got the rule of law right. I have no comment about first degree murder or a lesser charge.

    The first time he shot and neutralized the kid was legal and well aimed. So well, in fact, that the kid posed zero threat from that moment on.....

    Oklahoma County Assistant District Attorney Jennifer Chance told the jury Parker was "unconscious, unarmed and not a threat to anyone" after Ersland fired the first shot, hitting Parker in the head.

    Read more: http://www.koco.com/news/28033357/de...#ixzz1NYHkaLSw
    Good job. Cover him if you feel nervous. Move any weapons with your foot. Youre done shooting at that point. Pharmacist 1; Bad Guy 0. He has full tactical superiority standing over perp and doing nothing more but calling 911.

    Instead.....his inner Chuck Bronson channels him.

    Walking out of the pharmacy, coming back in into the pharmacy by the shot perp on the ground, going over somewhere else, then walking back and executing him with more rounds is flatly criminal.

    There was no threat from the kid on the ground. The pharmacist walked by shot perp on the ground and gave his back to the perp.
    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it."
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  7. #21
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    One of the comments on the news site was hilarious. Guy was so upset with the verdict he was "applauded".
    Always remember that others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them. And then you destroy yourself.
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  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by article linked above;
    A jury found Jerome Ersland, 59, guilty of first-degree murder in the death of a teen in an attempted robbery. Do you agree with the verdict?

    Percentage of 1,905 Votes
    Yes 416 22%
    No 1,489 78%
    I have to agree with the JURY , except that in the video, really can't see what the BG is doing ..... and if he's with it , about to do harm, or dead. There is 'no' way to be sure for the DA to really know which bullet hit him first, unless there is something we can't see on the video that they can.

    However, he goes back quite casually ... the 2nd time, shooting him several times. with a different gun he retrieved in the back....... so , it does not seem the BG is doing anything at all.

    Video : YouTube - ‪Ersland Charged With Murder in Pharmacy Shooting‬‏
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  9. #23
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    This type of case just gives the Brady-bunchers ammo in their attempts to deprive lawful citizens of their second amendment rights. The pharmacist does not deserve to be called hero - that title was lost when he forgot the purpose of his firearm...for self defense. Trying to claim he was defending anything with the second firearm does a disservice to us all.
    "Historical examination of the right to bear arms, from English antecedents to the drafting of the Second Amendment, bears proof that the right to bear arms has consistently been, and should still be, construed as an individual right." -- U.S. District Judge Sam Cummings, Re: U.S. vs Emerson (1999)

  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArkhmAsylm View Post
    This type of case just gives the Brady-bunchers ammo in their attempts to deprive lawful citizens of their second amendment rights. The pharmacist does not deserve to be called hero - that title was lost when he forgot the purpose of his firearm...for self defense. Trying to claim he was defending anything with the second firearm does a disservice to us all.
    Those people only want guns in the hands of criminals anyway.

    I also wouldn't stop shooting until I know the threat is gone. People can disagree all they want, but I am not taking chances with my life, or the lives of law-abiding people around me. (I do admit I wouldn't be so nonchalant about getting a new weapon and popping a few rounds into what is likely already a corpse)

    Is that guy a hero? Maybe, maybe not.. but he certainly isn't a murderer. He didn't ask for those robbers to enter his store armed. Considering his fellow employees are still breathing.. I *am* going to lean to the hero side.

    I work in the medical field. I have seen the results when the threat was left dangling because people thought they were "incapacitated". Turns out those "incapacitated" can still do a lot of damage.

    I have also seen scenarios where a robber was crippled, and the shooter paid the consequences every time the robber had a doctor's appointment.
    Last edited by Mjodr; May 29th, 2011 at 08:13 AM.
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  11. #25
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    In todays sociaty there are cameras everywhere,Cell phone cameras,surveillance cameras etc.In a SD shooting we really need to take the moral high ground,sure the robbers etc IMHO are scumbags and usually get what they deserve,but when we decide to execute an incapacitated individual,we just crossed the line and are now a criminal,somebody made the comment that nobody could tell which bullet struck first,they didn't need to,his cavalier attitude the way he walked over and calmly fired a coup de grace was his undoing and no matter how much I would have hated it If I was on the Jury would have found him guilty
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
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  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    In todays sociaty there are cameras everywhere,Cell phone cameras,surveillance cameras etc.In a SD shooting we really need to take the moral high ground,sure the robbers etc IMHO are scumbags and usually get what they deserve,but when we decide to execute an incapacitated individual,we just crossed the line and are now a criminal,somebody made the comment that nobody could tell which bullet struck first,they didn't need to,his cavalier attitude the way he walked over and calmly fired a coup de grace was his undoing and no matter how much I would have hated it If I was on the Jury would have found him guilty
    The moral high ground means nothing when personal safety or safety of others is involved. The moral high ground would be to do whatever the guy demands and possibly come to harm.
    I'm not saying you guys aren't entitled to your opinions. I just disagree. What if the guy died on the first hit? Shooting a dead body is not murder. If the guy wasn't dead, he is still a threat. Maybe it's just because I have physically seen to victims that while in a SD shooting, "took the high road" and the "incapacitated" perp regained himself and made the person defending himself pay. If that victim had "finished the job", would it have been a murder charge? Doesn't that make it a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation?

    I'm not into just wounding and hoping I am safe. I am going to end the threat. I'm tired of fearing for my life, or the lives of others. Self-defense isn't as cut and dry as "he's down, the threat is over". You still have to wait for the LEO, and anything can happen in the meantime. It's similar to what I learned in martial arts.. you never take anything for granted.

    Now the storekeep shouldn't have chased the other guy, nor was that nonchalant second weapon grab needed. At the very least he could have held the 2nd gun at him and waited for LEO. But a murder charge? Overkill.

    Am I passionate about defense? Yes, BG made me this way. I used to be anti-gun.. well.. anti-me&gun. I currently live in a state with 17,000,000 people, many of whom wish the rest harm. Paranoid? Maybe.. but the amount of crimes that I have personally suffered, my parents have suffered, or I have seen working in a hospital.. it still is pretty damn true.
    Coming soon to a Montana near you!

  13. #27
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mjodr View Post
    ...I also wouldn't stop shooting until I know the threat is dead. If the threat is still alive, it is still a threat. People can disagree all they want, but I am not taking chances with my life, or the lives of law-abiding people around me. (I do admit I wouldn't be so nonchalant about getting a new weapon and popping a few rounds into what is likely already a corpse)
    That post may come back to haunt you. You might want to delete it.

    As the current rule of thumb goes for a "Reasonable Man"...You end the threat, not kill.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    That post may come back to haunt you. You might want to delete it.

    As the current rule of thumb goes for a "Reasonable Man"...You end the threat, not kill.
    Haunt me? How?.. I am talking about ending the threat. Notice I said "threat is dead". The person can be still alive, but I have to be reasonably certain that it is not going to bite me in the rear. Likely I would keep my firearm trained on him, and I certainly wouldn't coup de grace him. (I did change to "threat is gone")

    Quote Originally Posted by Mjodr
    I work in the medical field. I have seen the results when the threat was left dangling because people thought they were "incapacitated". Turns out those "incapacitated" can still do a lot of damage.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mjodr
    Maybe it's just because I have physically seen to victims that while in a SD shooting, "took the high road" and the "incapacitated" perp regained himself and made the person defending himself pay.
    I'm sorry if my experience differs from others. I'm not ashamed of it, and I said nothing illegal. Using deadly force to protect yourself is legal in Florida.. pretty much anywhere you are, it just has to be warranted. I am not promoting murder.. I am simply talking about defending oneself as needed. I also wouldn't even fire, unless it is a necessity for survival.

    When you have experienced home invaders with a predilection for murder casing your home.. then tell me about what is or is not needed. When you have helped multiple patients that failed to defend themselves in a similar type situation.. then tell me what is or is not needed.

    I did get a bit redundant in that post, and I admit can be taken awkwardly, so I modified it a bit. As for "I also wouldn't stop shooting".. that is no different than that lady with the .22 that kept firing.

    Still, it is a bit rude for you to tell me how to protect myself or my family from harm.

    As for the subject of this thread. I never said he was "correct", I simply stated a murder charge is overkill.
    Coming soon to a Montana near you!

  15. #29
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    In the highly unlikely event that you will ever be in a courtroom defending your actions in a SD shooting...

    DA: "On May 28 of 2011 did you not publicly post on a internet forum that quote, I also wouldn't stop shooting until I know the threat is dead, Mr. Doe? Yes or no please."
    Mr. Doe; "Yes."
    DA: "So you agree that you planned and intended to shoot to kill anybody that threatened your life?"
    ...
    This is why we say "Stop the threat". Death is a very potential side effect of our actions of stopping a threat, but it is not our intention to insure that it happens.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  16. #30
    Member Array Mjodr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    In the highly unlikely event that you will ever be in a courtroom defending your actions in a SD shooting...

    DA: "On May 28 of 2011 did you not publicly post on a internet forum that quote, I also wouldn't stop shooting until I know the threat is dead, Mr. Doe? Yes or no please."
    Mr. Doe; "Yes."
    DA: "So you agree that you planned and intended to shoot to kill anybody that threatened your life?"
    ...
    This is why we say "Stop the threat". Death is a very potential side effect of our actions of stopping a threat, but it is not our intention to insure that it happens.
    While I never said the words "shoot to kill". You also apparently don't realize that meeting DEADLY FORCE against a DEADLY THREAT is PERFECTLY LEGAL here, I don't have to try to retreat or warn them. It's also legal in Montana, although I am pretty certain it would be much less likely to be needed up there. My goal is to keep myself and my family alive. Even if I had stated that I would "shoot to kill anyone that tried to kill me" and someone tried to use that against me.. the fact would be.. the person TRIED TO KILL ME. A deadly threat is not the same as some punk saying "Yo, I'm gonna kill you". A deadly threat is when they actually TRY.

    You really seem to Stick to that phrase "threat is dead", which I already stated was the wrong terminology, while ignoring the context of my posts.

    The law does not state that a post on a message board that MAY OR MAY NOT mean "shoot to kill a deadly threat" trumps the right to use deadly force.
    Coming soon to a Montana near you!

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