OK City Pharmacy Robbery Murder Trial - Page 4

OK City Pharmacy Robbery Murder Trial

This is a discussion on OK City Pharmacy Robbery Murder Trial within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; This is why you have to control yourself. Many times we have read on other threads about shooting until the gun is empty. Here is ...

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Thread: OK City Pharmacy Robbery Murder Trial

  1. #46
    Member Array tomtsr's Avatar
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    Once hailed as hero, pharmacist found guilty of murder

    This is why you have to control yourself. Many times we have read on other threads about shooting until the gun is empty.

    Here is a perfect example about continuing beyond the threat.

    Once hailed as hero, pharmacist guilty of murder - US news - Crime & courts - msnbc.com

    Glad the perp is gone, sorry the pharmacist went too far.
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  2. #47
    VIP Member Array paaiyan's Avatar
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    This is running somewhere else on the forum.

    OK City Pharmacy Robbery Murder Trial
    My blog

    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.

  3. #48
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    it may be that he let years of anger and frustration out on the already down dude...

    and who but he knows what vile filth the punk was saying to him...

    fact is he broke, now he is broke. and likely will die in jail.
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  4. #49
    Member Array nhcruffler's Avatar
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    Looking at the video it does look like he went too far. That said , I can only imagine the stress that he was under having two masked ( what looked like men ) threaten him and his co-workers. Maybe in his mind the perp was trying to reach his gun. I think he should have gone for a temp. insanity defense.

  5. #50
    Distinguished Member Array ArkhmAsylm's Avatar
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    If you've got the gun, you've got to keep your cool.
    "Historical examination of the right to bear arms, from English antecedents to the drafting of the Second Amendment, bears proof that the right to bear arms has consistently been, and should still be, construed as an individual right." -- U.S. District Judge Sam Cummings, Re: U.S. vs Emerson (1999)

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mjodr View Post
    Defend yourself... open fire. Unless you think there should be a Mexican stand-off that nobody will win.

    Thanks for your clarification
    Mjodr likes this.
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  7. #52
    Senior Member Array Chevy-SS's Avatar
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    The video does not show the kid lying on the ground. I would tend to believe the pharmacist that the kid was moving and still an active threat.

    Man, this doesn't seem right at all. Those punks came in, armed with GUNS. How is it possible that the pharmacist could be CONVICTED of 1st degree murder???? It just seems crazy.
    'Be careful, even in small matters' - Miyamoto Musashi

  8. #53
    Member Array tomtsr's Avatar
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    I believe that if the pharmacist had shown some urgency about getting the second gun rather than walking over, or close to the perp to get it, he may have been able to claim that the threat still existed. As it is, it appeared that he was determined to cut short this punks criminal career.
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  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by paaiyan View Post
    ^This^

    My wife and I both agree with a guilty verdict, but she thinks he should have gotten manslaughter for simply taking self-defense too far. I'd have taken either, but leaned towards the murder charge. The guy obviously thought the kid wasn't a threat as he just calmly walks by him, shows him his back and fetches another gun.

    1. I would not have chased the other criminals into the street. That's going past self-defense and leaning over the line into vigilante territory.

    2. Since I did not chase the other criminals into the street shooting after them, my primary weapon would not be empty and I wouldn't have to show my back to the one on the floor to fetch another gun. I would cover him until police arrived.

    3. On the off chance my primary did end up emptied and I had to fetch another gun, I would fetch it and again cover the criminal until police arrived. If he's incapacitated to the point that I really felt comfortable showing him my back (which is unlikely anyway) he does not get shot again.

    The biggest point is that he felt comfortable showing the criminal his back. If the threat is incapacitated to the point that he's OK with that, it doesn't need to be shot again. Especially not several times.
    I think you have 3 events here:

    1. Shooting the perp while the robbery is still in progress - justified.

    2. Following the perp outside - if no shots fired, so what. If shots fired - you have problems depending on who or what was hit. Could range from assault to murder.

    3. Shooting the perp on the floor - disgusting in any case, but if the perp was already dead, you have desecration of a corpse. If he was still alive, murder.

    Since I don't have all the forensic evidence, I don't know the right charge, but will defer to the jury's judgement - hopefully they had all the evidence.

    The right response was to shoot the first guy in the store then call the cops once the perps had left the store. Cover the guy on the ground in case he revives and decides to become hostle, but otherwise wait for the cops.
    Mjodr and paaiyan like this.
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  10. #55
    Senior Member Array Lotus222's Avatar
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    In no way shape or form should this guy get 1st degree. First and foremost he was defending his life. Secondly, he crossed the line. If the kid died on the floor without the excessive shots, there would be no issue here. Tough situation. Temporary insanity would be a good argument. Punishing this guy as if he sought out and killed someone like a serial killer is absolutely absurd.

  11. #56
    Senior Member Array hayzor's Avatar
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    I strongly disagree w/ the guilty verdict.
    First degree murder for a guy that 1 minute prior to the incident was minding his own business and not breaking any laws seems unreasonable to me.
    Note: I've read the entire thread and seen all the posts as to why many think he is guilty, but I disagree.
    I agree that he went too far, but disagree with the verdict.

    Regardless of our opinions on the case, it should serve as a reminder to gun weilding punks that stupid actions can have serious consequences.
    The same would apply for those who choose to defend themselves w/ a firearm.
    The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it. Albert Einstein

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  12. #57
    Member Array Mjodr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hayzor View Post
    I strongly disagree w/ the guilty verdict.
    First degree murder for a guy that 1 minute prior to the incident was minding his own business and not breaking any laws seems unreasonable to me.
    Note: I've read the entire thread and seen all the posts as to why many think he is guilty, but I disagree.
    I agree that he went too far, but disagree with the verdict.

    Regardless of our opinions on the case, it should serve as a reminder to gun weilding punks that stupid actions can have serious consequences.
    The same would apply for those who choose to defend themselves w/ a firearm.
    I would be OK with it if it had been a manslaughter charge. The man was not looking to kill anyone, the BGs came into his zone wielding weaponry. The man reacted.. badly sure.. to a dangerous situation. The bottom line for me is that he ended up being safe, and so are were his employees.

    How many people out there are trained well enough that in a situation like that, they are absolutely sure they wouldn't screw up as well? Maybe many people on here.. but this website is not representative of everyone.
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  13. #58
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    I'm a firm believer in the idea that criminals should get what they ask for. Unfortunately for this pharmacist, he's discovered too late in the game that the LAW doesn't agree. The way I see it, the system is flawed, but I can't do anything about it so all I can do is try to follow it and not end up in the pokey myself.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

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  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lotus222 View Post
    In no way shape or form should this guy get 1st degree. First and foremost he was defending his life. Secondly, he crossed the line. If the kid died on the floor without the excessive shots, there would be no issue here. Tough situation. Temporary insanity would be a good argument. Punishing this guy as if he sought out and killed someone like a serial killer is absolutely absurd.
    The thing that sets 1st degree apart from other charges is premeditation. It doesn't have to be that he "sought out and killed someone like a serial killer," just that he decided before the act that he was going to kill someone. In this case, I'm sure the prosecutor argued that he decided to kill the robber AFTER he was incapacitated (although we can't see him on camera), went back to get another gun so he could do so, then calmly walked in and murdered him. If you believe these facts as the jury obviously did (and the video does seem to support), the act of going to get the other gun is premeditation.

    This is a good lesson, though. If you legitimately shoot a robber in the head and he goes down, go take his gun away. That way you won't feel threatened by the convulsions that often occur with major CNS trauma.
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  15. #60
    Member Array Mjodr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gruntingfrog View Post

    This is a good lesson, though. If you legitimately shoot a robber in the head and he goes down, go take his gun away. That way you won't feel threatened by the convulsions that often occur with major CNS trauma.
    Too good not to quote.
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