Chasing, shooting at stolen car, frowned upon by LEOs in UT

Chasing, shooting at stolen car, frowned upon by LEOs in UT

This is a discussion on Chasing, shooting at stolen car, frowned upon by LEOs in UT within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Employee fires shots at stolen vehicle, police say | Deseret News Employees of the company that owned the vehicle, tracked the truck to an apartment ...

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Thread: Chasing, shooting at stolen car, frowned upon by LEOs in UT

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Chasing, shooting at stolen car, frowned upon by LEOs in UT

    Employee fires shots at stolen vehicle, police say | Deseret News

    Employees of the company that owned the vehicle, tracked the truck to an apartment complex at 1450 S. West Temple. As the employees confronted the suspected thief, he hurriedly backed the vehicle out, striking a BMW, said Salt Lake Police Sgt. Shawn Josephson. One of the employees then attempted to stop the vehicle by pulling out a handgun and firing at the tires.
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    Member Array 8th ID's Avatar
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    Where I live, shooting at a car theif is a big no-no. Unless the criminal is shooting at you.

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    Senior Member Array justherenow's Avatar
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    If the driver is attempting to use the car as a weapon it should be justified, I mean iv heard of Leos shooting drivers when in fear of their lives.

    NOTE I DID NOT READ THE ARTICLE AND AM JUST MAKING A GENERAL STATEMENT.

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    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    being that we are responsible for ever round fired, shooting at a tire may ricochet or miss. that he hit a tire with one of his shots is good. but his approach to the situtation was less than proper. getting cited is, i hope, the worst of his problems. imthinking that his aim was better than his reasoning.
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    Ex Member Array hamlet's Avatar
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    Hard to make the case your life is threatened in these circumstances - or that even cops would have fired............ Adrenaline-shooting it sounds like - which can cause BIG PROBLEMS with sometimes innocent people dead at the worst and unjustifiable homicide or attempted murder at best. No thanks....... I pray if my times comes I use judgment as well as my central nervous system.
    8th ID likes this.

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    New Member Array Snoguy's Avatar
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    It was emphasized by the instructor when I took the class for my Utah and Idaho concealed permits that theft of property(vehicle) does not justify use of your weapon as long as your not threatened, such as in a car jacking with a weapon. Even theft of of property from your home, especially if the perp is leaving your home with the property, does not justify use of your weapon or chasing him while brandishing your weapon. He said it will most likely lead to criminal and/or civil actions against you.

    Dave

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    Distinguished Member Array tangoseal's Avatar
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    I think it is dead wrong to shoot anyone for stealing a car. Even my own. Life is not worth a car. Prison time sure but killing someone NO.

    Home invasion is a different story. My car is not my castle and safe haven when im not in it. But my home is any time of the day or night . However in Georgia we can shoot someone just for being on our property legally. Of course you WILL go to court over something like that. But hey im not gonna shoot you for being on my property. Just dont come inside where I feel threatened.

    It is also a diff story if they are shooting at you while stealing a car or try and hold a knife or gun to your head while jacking you. Now that is crossing the line and should be dealt back in lead.

    Certain intersections at downtown Atlanta I find my-self placing my 1911 right between my legs just in case. Atlanta is a very high crime city downtown.
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    Distinguished Member Array DefConGun's Avatar
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    Every bullet has a lawyer attached and he is lucky he didn't injure or kill anyone. He would have a tough time justifying this shoot IMO. Don't track down vehicles and try to get them back, call the police, that's what they're there for Simon & Simon.

    Here in KY, you're not allowed to kill someone for stealing your car. A car is not worth going to prison over, my freedom is worth more than a car. Even if you beat the charge, you could still be out of an enormous amount of time, money & hassel fighting this in court. If convicted you would not only loose your job but would have trouble finding a job when you get out because now you're an ex-con with a record, etc.

    DFG

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    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 8th ID View Post
    Where I live, shooting at a car theif is a big no-no. Unless the criminal is shooting at you.
    Wrong. If the BG attempts to harm you with the car you are perfectly justified.

  10. #10
    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DefConGun View Post
    Every bullet has a lawyer attached and he is lucky he didn't injure or kill anyone. He would have a tough time justifying this shoot IMO. Don't track down vehicles and try to get them back, call the police, that's what they're there for Simon & Simon.

    Here in KY, you're not allowed to kill someone for stealing your car. A car is not worth going to prison over, my freedom is worth more than a car. Even if you beat the charge, you could still be out of an enormous amount of time, money & hassel fighting this in court. If convicted you would not only loose your job but would have trouble finding a job when you get out because now you're an ex-con with a record, etc.

    DFG
    If the possibility of death or grave bodily harm is involved in association with the car theft you are perfectly justified in the use of deadly force.

    Think of it as a 4,000 lbs. deadly weapon you're being attacked with.

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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    If they were able to track the car,they should have notified LEO's to the whereabouts and maintained a position from which to observe the vehicle until LEO's showed up,he is lucky an errant round didn't injure or kill anybody,or him and his company would be in deep caca since a lawyer would tie his employment to the act and sue the company into non-existence
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  12. #12
    Distinguished Member Array DefConGun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21bubba View Post
    If the possibility of death or grave bodily harm is involved in association with the car theft you are perfectly justified in the use of deadly force.

    Think of it as a 4,000 lbs. deadly weapon you're being attacked with.
    I agree with this but at the same time, you're going to have a hard time explaining why you were taking the law into your own hands. Tracking the guys down isn't that big of a deal but trying to apprehend them is another matter. I agree with the last post, they are going to want to know why you didn't contact LEO and have them take over.

    The attack was instigated in a sense. It's the same as getting into an altercation that you instigated because you knew you were armed. I could verbally escalate a matter through nothing but my language but by provoking the other guy into a course of action, I would be deemed to be in the wrong.

    I don't begrudge anyone for taking up for themselves and I'm glad to see BGs fail in their attempts at evil but at the same time, we live in a world where you have to cover yourself because there's always someone with an agenda to demonize guns and the people that use them to defend themselves.

    DCG

  13. #13
    Senior Member Array Chad Rogers's Avatar
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    I have met more than a couple of guys who carry just wanting an excuse to open fire. They tend to see the justification/need for using deadly physical force far sooner than do most level headed CCWers, if the level headed CCWer saw such a justification at all.

  14. #14
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoguy View Post
    It was emphasized by the instructor when I took the class for my Utah and Idaho concealed permits that theft of property(vehicle) does not justify use of your weapon as long as your not threatened, such as in a car jacking with a weapon. Even theft of of property from your home, especially if the perp is leaving your home with the property, does not justify use of your weapon or chasing him while brandishing your weapon. He said it will most likely lead to criminal and/or civil actions against you.

    Dave
    I would be interested in your instructor's interpretation of the following, in particular the resisting a felony part;

    TITLE 18
    CRIMES AND PUNISHMENTS
    CHAPTER 40
    HOMICIDE
    18-4009.JUSTIFIABLE HOMICIDE BY ANY PERSON. Homicide is also justifiable when committed by any person in either of the following cases:
    1. When resisting any attempt to murder any person, or to commit a felony, or to do some great bodily injury upon any person; or,
    2. When committed in defense of habitation, property or person, against one who manifestly intends or endeavors, by violence or surprise, to commit a felony,
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  15. #15
    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chad Rogers View Post
    I have met more than a couple of guys who carry just wanting an excuse to open fire. They tend to see the justification/need for using deadly physical force far sooner than do most level headed CCWers, if the level headed CCWer saw such a justification at all.
    And I have met more than a couple of guys who carry just for the false sense of security having a gun gives them. They tend to believe in absolutes of which there are none.
    tangoseal likes this.

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