Good and bad and good

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Thread: Good and bad and good

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array MotorCityGun's Avatar
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    Good and bad and good

    The good news is that an off duty LEO acted as a sheepdog and ran towards the trouble and engaged the bad guys, the bad news is he got shot, but the good news is he survived.

    Mayor: Highland Park Police Officer Shot - Detroit Local News Story - WDIV Detroit

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Array Curt58's Avatar
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    It doesn't say wether his shot hit their mark.
    If not then he didn't accomplish much as the man he tried to save died anyway.
    Sad he took a bullet for nothing. But he did try to protect and serve.
    What have you done to prepare for the end of civilization as we know it?

  4. #3
    Senior Member Array foxytwo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curt58 View Post
    It doesn't say wether his shot hit their mark.
    If not then he didn't accomplish much as the man he tried to save died anyway.
    Sad he took a bullet for nothing. But he did try to protect and serve.
    He did not do it for nothing. He was doing what he was trained to do. It could have been you or me that he ran to save and was succesful in killing the bad guy and saving one of us. I do believe he accomplished a lot.

  5. #4
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    HIGHLAND PARK, Mich. -- Highland Park Mayor Hubert Yopp said an off-duty Highland Park police officer was shot Wednesday evening near Hamilton Avenue and Grand Street.

    The officer was inside a church when he heard gunfire from outside, Yopp said. He ran outside to see a man shooting at another man on the ground.

    the officer drew his gun and fired at the man while another man fired at the officer. The officer was hit and injured his knee, Yopp said.

    The man on the ground was killed by gunfire. The man who shot him and the man who fired at the officer both fled on foot, Yopp said.

    bold by me--from the write up it may be the officers bullet that struck the man on the ground. that would be tragic. so we will have to wait for additional information--which will never be forthcoming, to know the whole story.
    I AM NOT SAYING IT WAS THE OFFICERS BULLET THAT KILLED HIM
    i am reading possibilities. and at that, from what may be a poorly written story and surely lacking in all the facts.
    the morgue already has pulled the bullets from the body and the police lab has done the comparisons; what do the test show and when will 'we, the public' know?

    even should it be the policeman's bullet, he was still doing his job to the best of his abilities. it is a tragedy any which way.

    i hope some member here who lives close to the event will post follow up articles especially regarding bullet forensics.
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  6. #5
    Member Array KralBlbec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by claude clay View Post
    HIGHLAND PARK, Mich. -- Highland Park Mayor Hubert Yopp said an off-duty Highland Park police officer was shot Wednesday evening near Hamilton Avenue and Grand Street.

    The officer was inside a church when he heard gunfire from outside, Yopp said. He ran outside to see a man shooting at another man on the ground.

    the officer drew his gun and fired at the man while another man fired at the officer. The officer was hit and injured his knee, Yopp said.

    The man on the ground was killed by gunfire. The man who shot him and the man who fired at the officer both fled on foot, Yopp said.

    bold by me--from the write up it may be the officers bullet that struck the man on the ground. that would be tragic. so we will have to wait for additional information--which will never be forthcoming, to know the whole story.
    I AM NOT SAYING IT WAS THE OFFICERS BULLET THAT KILLED HIM
    i am reading possibilities. and at that, from what may be a poorly written story and surely lacking in all the facts.
    the morgue already has pulled the bullets from the body and the police lab has done the comparisons; what do the test show and when will 'we, the public' know?

    even should it be the policeman's bullet, he was still doing his job to the best of his abilities. it is a tragedy any which way.

    i hope some member here who lives close to the event will post follow up articles especially regarding bullet forensics.
    Thats answered in the following sentence from what you bolded. It was one of the two perps.

  7. #6
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    This is pretty bad,and something that we as CHL holders can run into,man down while someone is shooting him,but also an accomplice that may look like a bystander until we decide to engage and surprise we now got 2 perps to take on.There are people that will say don't get involved/be a good witness etc.I'm not saying just cause we carry we need to get involved,and sometimes the situation will determine our actions.What I'm saying is don't get tunnel vision and be prepared for the unexpected
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  8. #7
    Senior Member Array Curt58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by foxytwo View Post


    He did not do it for nothing. He was doing what he was trained to do. It could have been you or me that he ran to save and was succesful in killing the bad guy and saving one of us. I do believe he accomplished a lot.

    Like I said, I applaud his willingness to make an effort, but the fact remains that here is a trained Officer who waded into a gun fight, threw projectiles down range and apparently hit nothing, or at least none of his intended targets, and was unable to save the victim. And ended up taking a bullet for his efforts!
    Had your family been down range, how would you feel about the gun fight? There is no mention of what the Murder was in relation too. A Domestic, a Robbery,a Drug Deal Gone Bad or Gang Bangers, but the fact remains the Officer was injured by a bullet but no evidence that any of his rounds did any damage to the Bad Guys.
    Don't get me wrong, I am proud he got involved, I just wish he'd been more successful being as the victim was killed and he was injured with a possibly Career Ending injury. The bad guys deserved to pay with their lives for the murder, it's a shame it won't be swift.

    And now there is speculation that his shots he fired may have finished off the Victim. Let's pray that is not so!

    If I were to charge into a gun fight, I'd like to think I'd be more successful but probably not!

    The messages we should take away from this is, no where is safe, as this LEO was in Church and the shooting was outside, and even experts can't always hit their target when the adrenalin is pumping. I am taking notes here for myself. Will you? And just because you are one the good guys in the gun fight, you can be shot too! And tunnel vision can be dangerous.
    I probably would have charged in too, and I admit it. Probably would not have faired any better. I would have felt horrible about the bullets I sent down range that missed the bad guys, Had the parking lot been full of Church goers or children, it could have been much worse.

    Waiting to hear the, "Rest of the Story"

    My point is, I feel bad for the guy!
    We can only hope the gunmen are found in an ally somewhere from wounds they recieved from the Officers Gun.
    If not they will be caught later. But will they be properly punished later?
    What have you done to prepare for the end of civilization as we know it?

  9. #8
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curt58 View Post
    Like I said, I applaud his willingness to make an effort, but the fact remains that here is a trained Officer who waded into a gun fight, threw projectiles down range and apparently hit nothing, or at least none of his intended targets, and was unable to save the victim. And ended up taking a bullet for his efforts!
    Had your family been down range, how would you feel about the gun fight? There is no mention of what the Murder was in relation too. A Domestic, a Robbery,a Drug Deal Gone Bad or Gang Bangers, but the fact remains the Officer was injured by a bullet but no evidence that any of his rounds did any damage to the Bad Guys.
    Don't get me wrong, I am proud he got involved, I just wish he'd been more successful being as the victim was killed and he was injured with a possibly Career Ending injury. The bad guys deserved to pay with their lives for the murder, it's a shame it won't be swift.

    And now there is speculation that his shots he fired may have finished off the Victim. Let's pray that is not so!

    If I were to charge into a gun fight, I'd like to think I'd be more successful but probably not!
    The messages we should take away from this is, no where is safe, as this LEO was in Church and the shooting was outside, and even experts can't always hit their target when the adrenalin is pumping. I am taking notes here for myself. Will you? And just because you are one the good guys in the gun fight, you can be shot too! And tunnel vision can be dangerous.
    I probably would have charged in too, and I admit it. Probably would not have faired any better. I would have felt horrible about the bullets I sent down range that missed the bad guys, Had the parking lot been full of Church goers or children, it could have been much worse.

    Waiting to hear the, "Rest of the Story"

    My point is, I feel bad for the guy!
    We can only hope the gunmen are found in an ally somewhere from wounds they received from the Officers Gun.
    If not they will be caught later. But will they be properly punished later?
    1st bold--i would like to see the funding such that Leo's could train with small arms monthly at the very least. i am not so with all the fancy and very costly equipment ( which often is used cause they have it and they have to use it to justify that they have it...)

    2nd bold--statistics are that you would have been more successful: officers' shots on target in a gunfight are 11%--not necesserally COM, just on the intended. civilian shots are 89% the majority being COM. lots of reasons for this; chief being that we tend to be closer and the threat is more clearly defined. the officer is likely to be juggling more issues.

    3rd bold--suckers bet--but, wanna see how many previous arrests they each have and if there are outstanding warrants--I'll bet on each of them. lets find out why the courts keep setting them free during appeals and fix that at the very least.
    and more funds for basic hand gun training, not fancy computer simulations; they have a use but should not be a substitute for a box of ammo weekly with a instructor looking on.
    we expect so much from the men in blue--lets make sure the programs for training are there such that they have the skills to be effective.

    i hope he recovers and their caught and this time--put away.

    and KralbBec, its so badly written but i think ( and hope) its the way it is.
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  10. #9
    Distinguished Member Array Fitch's Avatar
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    This is a very interesting and difficult situation. I hope the bad guys are caught. But, that said, I can't help asking the obvious question: "Why did the off duty officer assume the guy standing was the bad guy?" What was the data that told him the answer? Or was he just guessing?

    It could, for example, have been one of us defending ourself from an assailant who is on the ground but still armed and dangerous.

    Turns out it wasn't, but it does raise the same question as posed by one of us responding to that situation and firing at the guy standing thinking he must be the bad guy. If that assumption isn't right, the situation goes south rather quickly and our future looks really bleak.

    There is no logic to "doing something" just to be "doing something" with out knowing if it is right or wrong, and in this case, from what I've seen, the officer didn't know which people were the "bad guys". Could have been all of them, or any of them.

    Fitch
    “The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety), by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.” by H. L. Mencken

  11. #10
    Senior Member Array MotorCityGun's Avatar
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    Good input from all of you. This kind of "stuff" happens here, in and around metro-Detroit, almost on a daily basis, which is why I carry whenever/wherever (but especially, in the D) it is legal to do so. A lot of incidences go unreported, if you can imagine that. The fact that it was an off duty LEO who was involved in a shooting, elevated this story for it to be reported. I doubt very much that there will be a follow up by the local news...too much other stuff going on. Here in MI, local LE depts are struggling financially like everyone else and have been severely cutting back, and even consolidating depts in some cases. Therefore, dept sponsored, extra curricular training is out of the question. Russian Roulette, Detroit Style

    I grew up and lived in the D until '80's and now live in the 'burbs, but no one around here is immune to this "stuff".

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