Road Rage / Brandishing
This is a discussion on Road Rage / Brandishing within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; I think holding up your cell phone and making him watch you dial 911 would have been more effective, in all honesty. I think displaying ...
July 30th, 2006 04:23 PM
I think holding up your cell phone and making him watch you dial 911 would have been more effective, in all honesty. I think displaying it like that was pretty bad, man. Sorry. Let the law deal with the punk.
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"It is enough to note, as we have observed, that the American people have considered the handgun to be the quintessential self-defense weapon." - Justice Scalia, SCOTUS - DC v Heller - 26 JUN 2008
July 30th, 2006 05:28 PM
Originally Posted by ccw9mm
Absolutely, on both counts: (a) make the 911 call along with (if possible) the guy's license plate nbr; and (b) don't leave the car if possible. I see the point about never leaving the car. I'll have to think about it. Certainly a good hunk of metal around, shows clear intent on the BG's part, etc. Hm ...
Originally Posted by fadlan12
July 30th, 2006 06:24 PM
I have found that since I carry I do not get into macho acts on the highway. We are held to a much higher standard than your average finger waver.
Very simply you should have pulled off the highway and re-entered a few minutes later if you did happen to catch up to him again a simple "I'm Sorry" gesture should have cooled his jets.
If not call 911 and give them this jerks info and description.
George Washington: "A free people ought to be armed."
July 30th, 2006 06:39 PM
Alright guys, I get it, I get it. I pretty much had this one figured out when I wrote the post, but I guess I just needed to confess and accept the abuse:-)
July 30th, 2006 07:46 PM
listen to your peers. Better to err on the side of caution when carrying. Anyone who does otherwise makes us all look bad.
"In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson
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July 30th, 2006 08:22 PM
I think it was good to air this. It helps remind all of us of the "dos" and "don'ts" and the "whys"
Originally Posted by jofrdo
It also helps you resolve to take a better approach next time.
I think we all might feel the temptation to basically say "back off or else" but to be honest, I think you should have just shot him! NO NO! JUST KIDDING!
Seriously, thanks for the post!
ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!
"A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
judgement to keep himself out of situations that would require a display of his
July 30th, 2006 09:32 PM
I gotta say, one of my first posts was on a similar topic, only I didn't remain as cool and did return the finger. I wasn't...enraged, I just found the situation humorous, until (this was during stop and go rush hour traffic) he put his car in park and when he was shifting in his automatic, the brake lights came on for a sec. I thought he was going to try to back into me, and I wanted an opinion on my initial reaction. I didn't do anything, but it was what I would have done instinctively if he had.
Originally Posted by jofrdo
I got the same abuse you did, and in the months since that situation, it's helped. I've calmed down as a driver, and reading stories like yours just adds to the "book of tricks," so to speak. I can't say I would have removed the weapon and showed it, like you did, but I most definitely would have removed it from my holster. Calling the police wouldn't have been on my mind in that situation, because, seriously, what would I tell them?
Now, reading your story and getting all the similar stories out, I've learned that they will actually do something about it. Especially the one about the guy being in handcuffs next time he saw the dude.
Yeah, the abuse sucks...but it's part of learning. I was there when I first got my CCW (just months ago...not saying you're new to it, I never grew up with weapons in my house, so each is different), and I'm sure at one time or another, most of us were green behind the ears. Some of us still are!
July 30th, 2006 10:01 PM
Welcome to the site Jofrd, and thanks for bringing up a topic that needed to be discussed.
This is the best ccw/ self defense site I have ever found, and 99% of the time people stay polite, but occasionally the abuse gets a little out of hand. It is especially bad where new members are involved. Don't read too much into it.
Now, for my $.02
This once again illustrates my assertion that you should always drive the heaviest chunk of metal you can afford. (gas $$ included) If this nut in the Saab had to look up at you through his sunroof, he might not have been so bold. Not to mention, you are much more likely to retain control of a heavier vehicle if someone decides to attack you with the 3500lb+ weapon they are piloting.
DISCLAIMER* The last time I mentioned something similar, someone insisted I was recommending a 65mph demo derby free-for-all or similar nonsense. Therefore, I feel the need to make myself perfectly clear. I AM NOT advocating, suggesting, nor approving, of any action other than evasion and retreat with a motor vehicle at speed. Anything else would be a very good way to get innocent people killed. (yourself included)
(This does not include shoving a parked car out of your way in a car jacking or similar situation at or very near 0mph) If that isn’t clear enough I don’t know what is.
July 30th, 2006 10:08 PM
The best and the basic thing to do is de-escalate the situation as Massad Ayoob advises. It will save you a lot of trouble. Reporting him to the State Police would have been the better thing to do to get rid of one crazy drive off the highway. Why mess up your or your love ones' day because of one SOB. Not worth it.
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"Self defense is a law of necessity." VA Self Defense Law
July 30th, 2006 10:14 PM
VIP Member (Retired Staff)
jofrdo - do not take folk's comments too hard - because I do not think anyone plans to be actually abusive as such, tho some phraseology might come over that way - problems with the written word etc
It can be tough taking what seems to be flak but I'll wager everyone is being not only honest with opinion but also wanting to help you save yourself any grief in future!
Opinions are opinions - but we as a body of folks with this common bond of guns and carry are pretty supportive one to another - and so underneath it all want to help one another.
Chris - P95
NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member. "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."http://www.rkba-2a.com/
- a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.
July 31st, 2006 07:34 AM
No offense taken. When I commented on the "abuse," I used a smiley to let you know I took it all as helpful advise, just as I feel it was offered. Look, during the confrontation, I decided on a course of action which upon later reflection I thought was not only incorrect, but illegal. I posted my experience to prompt discussion and to hear others' opinions. I knew opinions would be critical of my actions, just as I was already self-critical. If I were so thin skinned, I would not have posted. I'm new to the site, and am enjoying the information, the nature of the discussions, and the comraderie of the CCW community.
July 31st, 2006 08:47 AM
Here Here, well said. I've learned alot also. Thanks for your inital post.
July 31st, 2006 01:00 PM
Thanks for the post. I too have always wondered if you were confronted by someone in this manner. I ride a motorcycle and run across this rather more often than you think. But have to admit that confronting them just does make it worse. I have found it best to back off, or get past them as quick as you can. As for getting out of your car, there is no choice no a bike, let alone take the time if your aggressor is after you to dial 911. Best to find someplace crowded pull in and chill a bit. Use your head, stay calm and only show force if you absolutly have to. As for what I would like to do..... Well, let's just say there would be a few less agressors on the road for the next person to deal with.
July 31st, 2006 02:13 PM
LEO mode: ON
Originally Posted by jofrdo
I lived in the Hampton Roads area for about 10 yrs, and the traffic is insane. All you have to do to escape it is drive 20 miles in any direction. Try it sometime. Drive west on 64, as soon as you pass the Lee Hall exit sanity returns to the road. It's almost like a form of demon posession takes over as soon as you cross the line into Newport News heading east.
Nevertheless, you had no business brandishing your weapon. Like P95Carry said, he could've called the VSP (Virginia State Police) on you and your butt would've been on the ground, or worse. The traffic portion would've been your word against his, but if he had called in the brandishing and the VSP found a pistol with you, guess who's word they're gonna take?
Or the guy in the Saab, could've had a gun too. Then the situation has gotten way out of control. Most likely at that distance, he who takes the first shot wins. If you took the first shot you'd be looking at manslaughter, maybe murder. If it was him it would be "self defense", and it would probably be upheld since he could imply that you were threatening him by showing him a weapon.
I don't care how frustrating it gets, the only good reason for pulling a weapon on someone is when you believe that your life or the life of someone nearby is being threatened, and you are unable to resort to other means to resolve the situation (in this case you could drive away). The use of deadly force, or the threat of the use of deadly force is nothing to be taken lightly. It is the most serious of decisions, and it should always be the decision of last resort.
As for the driving part. Keep it at or below the limit in the right hand lane (yes a lot of us do this, albeit not enough). That in itself can defuse a lot of situations. Let 'em pass. No one has any good reason for exceeding the speed limit unless it is a bonafide emergency. I keep to the right and at or below, and I find the behavior of other drivers to run the gamut from humorous to outright frightening. Sometimes it makes me wish I was still a cop and could do something about their behavior.
As for wishing misfortune on the guy with the Saab, I think I'd check my attitude. This is a sign that something is wrong.
Sorry for the lecture. Have a nice day.
LEO mode: OFF
Virginia CHP holders have a reputation for being some of the most law abiding citizens in the commonwealth, all it would take is for one of us to lose it like this and the papers would have a field day, we could write off any pro-gun legislation in the future, and count on the antis flooding the GA with gun control measures next session.
The actions of one of us can reflect on all of us. That is why we need to keep a cool head.
Last edited by p8riot; July 31st, 2006 at 03:14 PM.
"You can get more with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone." - Al Capone
The second amendment is the reset button of our Constitution.
July 31st, 2006 02:50 PM
Several months ago, where I live had a similar incident.
Except the "Kid" with the gun was early 20s, just bought the weapon. (new toy / big ego)
He was involved in "Road Rage" between himself and another vehicle. with college kids in it.
A weapon was displayed by the "KID".
FHP was called and end result .............
GO TO JAIL .... GO DIRECTLY TO JAIL ... DO NOT PASS GO
Displaying a gun in traffic is a good way to experience your 1st felony traffic stop by law enforcement.
Use common sense ..... drive away .
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